Best Site for Golf Course

[Frank Kim]

At his presentation at Five Farms Darius Oliver repeatedly stated that Cape Wickham is the best site he had ever seen for a golf course.  What's the best site you have seen for a golf course and did that archictect maximize the site?

[GLawson]

Frank,

As I mentioned yesterday, I think Barnbougle as well as Cape Kidnappers are right up there.  I can't wait to see how Wickham compares.

[Niall C]

I'd be iinterested to see what everyone thinks makes a great site and in what order would they list the criteria ?


Niall

[RJ_Daley]

Those sites are certainly as good as it gets.  And, they have the golf courses now built upon them to prove it.

But as most folks who participate here know, I'm a cheerleader for the Sand Hills area of Nebraska.  I believe I can find the equal in actual sand terrain and frequency of rolls and interesting topo to equal CW or Barnygoogles.  It is just that the Sand Hills lacks a large body of scenic water.   

I think that we may see a site that is the equal at the coming debut of Sand Valley in WI.   

Where there is quality sand, interesting topography, and abundant irrigation water, and weather conditions to grow turf, there can be outstanding golf. 

Cape Kidnappers was not pure sand.   There can be great golf without the sand, but it takes talent with earth moving and shaping, and imagination.  So, many diverse sites can yield great golf.  We have a world full of examples.

Great sites exist in natural settings or within great GCA minds imagination.

[Thomas Dai]

Are we talking 12 months per year golf here?
Atb

[Sean_A]

Best site I have seen is TOC (how else could the courses be considered one of the best in the world?)...and no, the site was not fully maximized.


Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

There are some unbelievably good sites along the California Coast line that will likely never be touched due to regulations. But they are nothing short of fantastic....miles and miles of raw dunes that aren't too big.

[BCowan]

The best sites imo are the ones where you can experience subtle changes of elevation and yet its an enjoyable walk for a round of golf with your old man. 

examples- Battle Creek, Franklin Hills, and Ocala Golf Club.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Walking around Orchard Lake with Ari Techner I commented that I would have loved to see the property before Alison went to work on it. The amount and variety of movement in the property is simply superb and the possibility of holes seems nearly endless. I couldn't help but feel that I could have found quite a few good holes, but never come close to the grouping of holes that Alison built.

[Jim Hoak]

I remember reading once that the first criterion for a great golf course was to "start with a gently rolling piece of land."  I always agreed with this.  I think of Shinnecock when I think of this.

[Dave McCollum]

Not too long after being bitten by the GCA bug and turning it into a hobby, I went to Scotland to get a feel for where it all started.  I traveled solo most of the time, playing golf, taking pictures, and stopping in at every golf course I stumbled across.  Twice during my travels I pulled off the road and wondered why there wasn’t a golf course on what seemed like a perfect site.  Now those sites have courses:  Trump Aberdeen and Castle Stuart.  Perhaps it illustrates how some sites are just meant for golf if a hack like me was so struck by them when passing by.

[Frank Kim]

Jim,
 
Eastword Ho! has rolling landscape shaped by glaciers.  And magnificient views of the bay.
 
Dave,
 
When you drive in the Nebraska Sandhills region you can imagine hundreds of golf courses just like you are describing.

[Carl Nichols]

What is Tasmania like as a tourist destination?

[Thomas Dai]

There are an awful lot of potentially wonderful sites for links courses around the coast of GB. Unfortunately a great deal of them are owned by the Ministry of Defence, who, although the armed forces have gotten smaller over the years, seem reluctant to give land up (sell it). Other sites are frequently some kind of nature reserve, although that didn't seem to matter in one particular case, or caravan sites.
Atb

[Mark Pavy]

Old Head

[Daryl David]

What is Tasmania like as a tourist destination?

It must be a wonderful tourist destination since I have been there three times. Of course I have not done anything there but golf, eat and sleep. 

[Tim_Weiman]

Inch..........but, of course, it will probably never happen.

[Tim Leahy]

Does it get any better than Cypress or Pebble?

[Ryan Coles]

I'd be iinterested to see what everyone thinks makes a great site and in what order would they list the criteria ?


Niall

1. Scenery
2. Tranquility
3. Free draining soil
4. An airport nearby
5. More scenery

[Tom_Doak]

At his presentation at Five Farms Darius Oliver repeatedly stated that Cape Wickham is the best site he had ever seen for a golf course.  What's the best site you have seen for a golf course and did that archictect maximize the site?

The problem with saying this is that if you do not then produce THE best golf course in the world, you've screwed it up. 


I have seen a lot of great sites and do not feel the need to rank them.  In the end, it's what you get out of them that matters.  And if nobody ever gets anything out of them, as with Inch ... or a few I've looked at ... it's heartbreaking, but it happens all the time.

[GLawson]

So where is Inch?

Inch..........but, of course, it will probably never happen.

[Jim Nugent]

Best site I have seen is TOC (how else could the courses be considered one of the best in the world?)...and no, the site was not fully maximized.

Ciao

Sean, your last sentence there really interests me.  Can you explain how they could have made TOC better? 

[Sean_A]

Niall


For me the interest of the land in terms of a smaller scale of movement (with little hill climbing) combined with free draining soil are the two most important features for a site.  I spose views may be next. 


Jim


TOC is far from perfect and this is part of its charm.  Nobody could say the opening six holes are a completely satisfactory start nor could people praise the 9th.  Once the idea for clearing the whins was on the table I always wondered why there wasn't a re-think for TOC.  It was a small window before these courses were built, but there is some other terrific land used on the New and Joob.

Ciao

[Jim Nugent]

Sean, I'd love to see what an improved TOC might look like, using land from some of the other courses there.  I take it you start and end the same, and probably keep the Road Hole intact.  What about Eden? 

Also, we've had "best of Bandon" threads, that take the best 18 holes from the entire Bandon complex.  How would that work at St. Andrews?  Would most of the holes come from TOC, or would the other courses contribute a fair amount as well? 

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think The Old Course uses by far the best land on the links.
 
The biggest and best argument for an "improved" course could have been using the New course land around its 8 green, 9, 10 & 11 green. This would be in place of the current 8th to 10th on The Old. In other words, heading further along the estuary after walking off 7 and then tying back in to the 11th tees... Of course, that would have been an even more obvious "out and back".