[cary lichtenstein]

I played em all. Oakmont and Sawgrass are the 2 toughest in this group. Both courses just beat the crap out of me on my 1 play each, so much so, that I was hoping the Oakmont round would be over already and wanting to skip to 17 at Sawgrass. Sawgrass is visually very intimidating and Oakmont is just frigging too hard

[K Rafkin]

I really done know how Pikewood National was omitted from this literary masterpiece.  I was told by the head pro that the course record is 70 from the tips, and no one has broken 75 in competition. 


7500+ yrds 79.3/155 slope

[Kyle Henderson]

I thought Kiawah Ocean was much tougher than Whistling Straits - stronger winds, elevated greens and tighter fairways. The Straits has wide fairways and the faux dunes offer playable lies plentifully.

Olympic Lake requires straight drives and high trajectory approaches with plenty of backspin hit from uneven lies in typically breezy conditions. Good luck posting your typical score here.

The Bridges at Gale Ranch (San Ramon, CA) and The Ranch (San Jose, CA) are stupid hard. They trump Spyglass and any Dye course I've played from a difficulty standpoint.


How does the French Lick Dye course compare? It has a daunting presence in photos.

[Tim Martin]

Atlanta Athletic Club Highlands could also find it's way onto the list. The Gold tees carry a course rating and slope of 75.9/149. Take it one more back to the champ tees and the yardage is north of 7600 with a course rating and slope of 77/152. 

[Phil McDade]

Impressive.  I haven't played Erin Hills so can't compare.  What did you shoot at Straits from the tips?

I shot 80 with a bogey from the fairway on 18    I think that was within 1 or 2 of my handicap.

Granted, I do it hit further than most, but the width of the fairways is what makes it more playable than a lot of places.  Plus, as much as the 1000 bunkers are over the top, they do make wayward shots very playable.  At Erin Hills, the narrow fairways, blind shots and ball swallowing rough make big numbers very frequent.



Josh:


I've enjoyed reading this, particularly as folks compare WStraits and EHills. Just curious your observation -- is it your experience that the fairways at Erin Hills are narrower than at WStraits? I wouldn't call the fairways at WS narrow, really, but they struck me as narrower than at EHills. Or do the fairways at EHills "play" narrower because of turf and conditioning there?

[Niall C]

I don't know if you guys remember but the scoring average in the 2nd round at the 2012 PGA championship at Kiawah was something like 79! Yes, the wind was up that day, but it is a seaside course so that is part of the nature of the course. I believe it was the highest scoring average in PGA history. There are not many, if any courses that can cause the best players in the world to score 79 as an average. Rory's 2nd round 75(!!) was seen as a great score and propelled him to victory! Kiawah has its place on this list.

Also, Vijay Singh won the 2004 PGA at Whistling Straits with a final round 76. That was the highest final round score for a champion in major championship history.

Matt


Does that prove that these courses are long or does it prove they are difficult ?


Niall

[Dave Doxey]

  Have played 7 of the 9 and any such listing is open to many opinions but I feel there is one glaring omission.

  Butler National is as tough as they come.

  On a local level, the Shattuck Inn Golf Course at the base of Mt. Monadnock in Jaffrey, NH will test your patience and resolve. For a number of years , the course record was 77 from the tips by Charlie Bolling. The " Devil's Triangle , a stretch of three holes(Par 3, 4 and 3) in the middle of a swamp is the stuff of legend and disaster up here in the sticks.

Shattuck Inn came to mind for me on this topic.  The article obviously dealt only with big name courses.

[Matt Glore]

How does the French Lick Dye course compare? It has a daunting presence in photos.

Its the hardest I've played and I have played a few on the list.  Even if you hit the green in regulation figure 2.25 putts per green.  I'm sure I had 45+ putts!

[Jeff Goldman]

The article is based mostly on course ratings and slopes.

The dumbest part is that they calculate the average 16-handicapper's "expected score", not factoring in that he will be petrified by the green speeds at Oakmont, or that his handicap is based on the top 50% of his rounds.  So they show expected scores of 94-97 for these courses, when most 16-handicappers would be unlikely to break 110 from the back tees.

Exactly right about the greens. Played my first round at oakmont from like 6300, hit every fairway and shot 107. Parred 17 though

[Mike Hendren]

I've been fortunate enough to play Spyglass, Whistling Straits, Sawgrass and Kiawah's Ocean Course.
 
Shinnecock Hills was tougher by a good margin.  It suffers no fools.
 
Bogey

[Carl Rogers]

I invite you to play in the George Cup this year.  Research the thread. ... or the Jim Sherma thread.

[Matt Kardash]

I don't know if you guys remember but the scoring average in the 2nd round at the 2012 PGA championship at Kiawah was something like 79! Yes, the wind was up that day, but it is a seaside course so that is part of the nature of the course. I believe it was the highest scoring average in PGA history. There are not many, if any courses that can cause the best players in the world to score 79 as an average. Rory's 2nd round 75(!!) was seen as a great score and propelled him to victory! Kiawah has its place on this list.

Also, Vijay Singh won the 2004 PGA at Whistling Straits with a final round 76. That was the highest final round score for a champion in major championship history.

Matt


Does that prove that these courses are long or does it prove they are difficult ?


Niall

I don't see how a 7500 yard par 72 is long for a pro golfer these days. Therefore, I would say it proves they are difficult.

[Kalen Braley]

Haven't played any of those, but the Idaho Club in Northern Idaho is a tough mother.
 
Lost ball/water hazards/forces carries on just about every shot on every hole, its that demanding.  I've played it 3 times and yet to break 100.  My buddy is a two capper and struggled to shoot mid 80s on it...

[Josh Tarble]

Phil,
I really feel like the fairways are more narrow at Erin Hills.  It may have been they play narrower due to conditioning and looking back, I think several of the holes do have ample width, but there were also many that were really narrow.  I'd be interested to see actual measurements.


I also think the penalty for just missing at Erin Hills is much more severe, in general.

[Andrew Buck]

IIRC, Butler was not the hardest in the CDGA.  Rich Harvest astroturf and Bull Valley were higher rated, sloped.  And lest we forget Bon Vivant, the NLE bear of Bourbonnais.

Old Bon Vivant, was turned away from there when I was 15 with my dad.  Played many times after coming "of age" and it was certainly long in the days of Persimmon Drivers, but not too much teeth other than length on most holes.  Added bonus of a game of croquet after a round, too bad it is NLE.

I would say both Rich Harvest and Bull Valley are harder than PGA West Stadium on this list, but to me any tree lined course of length plays harder than PGA West which just wasn't *that* difficult IMO, other than the 6th hole, which I had no shot for.   

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()