[Thomas Dai]

Which is your favourite hole at TOC and why?


My favourite is the 16th and the reason......strategy and options.


Atb

[Sean_A]

At one time I would have said 16, but the option to go left no longer exists...thus spoiling the nature of the hole.   


I think I would plop for 17 simply because the challenge of the hole is immense and heightened moreso because of its fame.  For the visiting golfer the sucker plays off the tee and approach are incredibly enticing.  I suspect if I played the course every week that thrill may disappear and the goal would be two putt 5. 


There are a few candidates I think may be more suitable if I played the course every week...4 & 12.


Ciao

[Ed Brzezowski]

12. So many options on a calm day. Way right and come in high, left and come in low??  Try to drive it downwind, chunk a tee shot into an unseen bunker??  Flat out love the hole and it's a great green.


Visually it is perfect too, just an unappreciated gem.

[MCirba]

#13, and I'm not sure I can adequately explain why except to say that it may be the most non-obvious golf hole I've ever seen.

I only played there once but I'm not even sure it exists.   I simply remember seeing very little of anything that suggested itself as safe golf ground, or a potentially viable target until I crossed through a narrow pathway and came upon a gigantic green with a lion's mouth bunker eating into the front right and thinking to myself, "my, now this is something different".

[Bill_McBride]

At one time I would have said 16, but the option to go right no longer exists...thus spoiling the nature of the hole.   


I think I would plop for 17 simply because the challenge of the hole is immense and heightened moreso because of its fame.  For the visiting golfer the sucker plays off the tee and approach are incredibly enticing.  I suspect if I played the course every week that thrill may disappear and the goal would be two putt 5. 


There are a few candidates I think may be more suitable if I played the course every week...6 & 12.


Ciao

Based on a recent visit, the option to go right is still there, but it's still what Nicklaus called "strictly for amateurs." What's changed is the left option, with rough replacing almost everything left of the Nose.  This didn't deter most of the Open field from choosing the left, although this meant 1) fingers crossed for a decent lie, and 2) dealing with Wig Bunker from that angle.  Into the wind the right hand play tempts out of bounds.  So the question becomes, double or single bogey?

[Bill_McBride]

My favorite remains 14 when played by amateurs or everybody into the wind.  Hell is still a factor under those conditions.  During the 2005 Open I saw player after player, even from the 600 yard open tee, bomb second shots over Hell.  I don't think there was much talk of that this year.  Even the Beardies were in play!   Players w ere choosing Dr Mackenzie's alternate routes!   I was surprised by how many were choosing the second shot right of Hell, into broken ground and rough, with a worse angle that after the play left of Hell into flat fairway with a better angle. 

[BCrosby]

Beyond the usual suspects, I think the most under-appreciated hole at TOC is the 12th. A great short par 4.


As Tom Doak mentions in another thread, the 2nd is also under-valued, though Dawson's new bunkers bring it down several notches. The new bunkers effectively eliminate the bail-out option to the right (lower) side of the green.


Bob

[David Whitmer]

My favorites are #12 (see Ed's reasons, as they mirror mine), #14 (so many choices depending on the wind and your confidence), and #17. If a par 4 is your goal on #17, you have a few different avenues to get there, but none are easy. A mistake can easily bring a very large number in play. But, if a bogey 5 is your goal, it is usually pretty easy to get there. Throw in the history, and how can you not love this hole?

[Jim Tang]

No doubt, it would be 17.  The anticipation of playing that famous hole builds throughout the round (at least for me).  It's very challenging and one of the most unique golf holes in the world.


Playing the 18th would rank a close second.


Having recently watching The Open on television made me realize how badly I want to return to St. Andrews.  What a magical place.

[Eric Smith]

Which is your favourite hole at TOC and why?

Thomas,


My answer is not necessarily one that has a lot to do with architecture but my first inclination when thinking on your question is to go with the 1st hole. I've seen a lot of really great golf courses in my life and have only played at St Andrews the one time but it is without a doubt my favorite course. As for why the the first hole, well, there really is no comparison to the rush of adrenaline felt when making your first swing beneath the shadow of the R&A clubhouse. The beauty of it all is that that high stays with you all the way round the course, resulting in the fastest three hours of your life (!) with one last major adrenaline rush from the tee shot at 17 all the way to the final putt on the 18th green.

[Adrian_Stiff]

It is interesting to see how many different holes are getting faved. Mine is another one that has been mentioned yet. Hole 5. I like the elevation changes and the bunkering is more visual, I like the pocket of heather and broken ground front left of the green and the way the green sits. If was rating my faves in order it would go 5, 14, 11, 7, 16, 17, 13, 2, 15, 6, 4, 3, 12, 18, 1, 8, 10, 9,  however I still think 9 is a good hole and my faves could wildly swing any day.

[Jason Topp]

12 - great green, interesting strategic choices and discovering the hidden bunkers the first time you play the hole is a magical experience, particularly if you have no idea they exist (my experience in 1992).

[Pete_Pittock]

#1 Reverse,   The more you hit it towards OB left, the better the angle of approach. Road more in play. Fall-away green.

Off to play Fircrest, I think.

[BCrosby]

#1 Reverse,   The more you hit it towards OB left, the better the angle of approach. Road more in play. Fall-away green.

Good observation. I've never played it that way, but it would be an terrific hole. 

[Rich Goodale]

13 for the drive and 7 for the second shot.

[Peter Pallotta]

I have a sense of the courses, and the great courses, that Eric has played, and so it is striking to read him listing The Old as his favourite, and the first as his favourite hole there. While the odds are currently against me ever getting to St Andrews, I'm more than ever hoping for some divine intervention in this regard, perhaps from St Andrew himself! If any of you are members in good standing (in the Church of Scotland, not the R&A) I'd appreciate you putting in a word.
Peter

[Tyler Ince]

17 because it can win or lose the tournament.

[Tim_Weiman]

No doubt, it would be 17.  The anticipation of playing that famous hole builds throughout the round (at least for me).  It's very challenging and one of the most unique golf holes in the world.


Playing the 18th would rank a close second.


Having recently watching The Open on television made me realize how badly I want to return to St. Andrews.  What a magical place.

Jim,


Tough choice, but I just might say 18. It is kind of the ultimate walk home.

[Bill_McBride]

#1 Reverse,   The more you hit it towards OB left, the better the angle of approach. Road more in play. Fall-away green.

Off to play Fircrest, I think.

Not sure what number it is in the reverse routing, but the hole played from 13 tee to 11 green is a beauty, with the approach played over Hill Bunker to that dastardly sloped green and Strath gathering balls that are cut into the wind.  You can see all the fairway bunkers in the regular 12th fairway that are invisible from the tee in that direction. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim,
 
I was underwhelmed by # 18.
 
If it was on any other golf course, at any other point in the rotation other than # 1, you'd never hear about it.
 
It's got "history" going for it, certainly there's no outstanding feature within the confines of the playing corridors.
 
# 17 seems exceptional to me.
 
That green is probably one of the great greens in golf.
 
It's shape, surrounds and angles from the varied points of approach create a unique challenge which is repeated on recoveries.
 
And, the tee shot can be daunting.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mine is the 4th. Your strategy changes a lot even off the tee depending on where the flag is compared to the hump in front of the green. It is a great example of how a smallish feature can have a big effect on a hole. The mound in the middle is a much under utilised feature these days.

Jon

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'd be interested to see how many think that # 18 is a great hole, architecturally.
 
If # 18 was anywhere else in the routing would it be deemed a weak hole ?
 
If it was on any other course, as the 18th hole or holes 1-17, would it attain the notoriety ?
 
I can see it as a neat 1st hole, but, from a playability perspective, I don't see it's greatness.
 
Does anyone else ?

[Matthew Sander]

I'd be interested to see how many think that # 18 is a great hole, architecturally.
 
If # 18 was anywhere else in the routing would it be deemed a weak hole ?
 
If it was on any other course, as the 18th hole or holes 1-17, would it attain the notoriety ?
 
I can see it as a neat 1st hole, but, from a playability perspective, I don't see it's greatness.
 
Does anyone else ?

Pat,


I haven't been to TOC yet, so my comments are just based upon what I've read and watched. I don't think many suggest that 18 is a great hole. Based on my observations though, its merits seem to derive from: A. its position as the final hole B. the valley of sin C. its length.


Its length would suggest that it should always be a birdie hole, but because of hole locations near the VoS, it can be a very difficult birdie.

[Mark Chaplin]

13 always play it well!!

[Joe Zucker]

I would say the 18th is my favorite hole.  As Pat points out, it certainly isn't the best hole architecturally and the only real defense is the valley of sin.  I wouldn't say its a bad hole architecturally because it still has strategy, even though it's short.  It is by no means an automatic birdie and the closer the drive is to OB, the better the angle on the wedge shot.  It would probably not be a great hole if it were anywhere else, but it's position on the course and the way it plays back into the town make it remarkable.


Since I am from the US and have had only one trip to Scotland, the way a course played back into a town with people and shops all around is awesome.  I know this is not all that unique in Scotland, but for as a golfer playing with my Dad, it is a memory I will never forget.  The atmosphere makes it my favorite on the course, in spite of its shortcomings from a playing stand point.

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