[paul cowley]

Do many modern designers use a 30 something yard wide fairway as a built in play strategy?

Do as many superintendents and greens committees feel that narrow fairway corridors helps to elevate a course's status? (the narrower the fairway width, the higher the rough, the faster the greens kind of logic).


- as an aside question I'd ask "who of the Golden Agers specified regular fairway widths as an integral part of design strategy?".




I'm curious about where we are heading...and where we have been. It's good to take the pulse every so often.

[Rory Connaughton]

Paul


  I am a member of the green committee at my home course.  The course is not modern but, if anything, the trend is to provide plenty of width to ensure that the terrain influences the ball and to ensure plenty of options from the tee. 
I think the architect specified fairway widths in the original design drawings.


Of the highly regarded moderns of this era, I think width is a huge component.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Paul,


I still vary mine from 30-60, when and if I can (harder on renovations than the new course design, I agree)  Or, probably to 50 yards, since 60 is just an invitation to be narrowed.


I can only gauge interest by random comments from golfers.  Certainly, many prefer a course with a theme, like small greens, wild greens, narrow fairways.  But I do notice that better players notice holes with different size greens or different width fairways, such as "I know I can bust one on 6, the fairway is 50 yards wide!"


I used to design a wide fairway with some rumples on one side, and level on the other, so the thinking player would have an advantage with no visible hazards.  Invariably, the superintendent mows the lumpier part as rough, but it may be the pro shop, as in, why would a fairway roll so much?


I guess in practice, rough is the cheapest way to test tee shot accuracy, and many probably default to that as a standard.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Do many modern designers use a 30 something yard wide fairway as a built in play strategy?

Do as many superintendents and greens committees feel that narrow fairway corridors helps to elevate a course's status? (the narrower the fairway width, the higher the rough, the faster the greens kind of logic).
 
Paul,
 
I think a good percentage of green committees and memberships equate narrow fairways with making their course more difficult.
 
And, over the last 50 years I think there's a train of thought that equates difficulty with quality.
 
Memberships don't seem to like par being dismantled by talented golfers, ergo, they look to lengthen and narrow their courses in order to make them more difficult..

as an aside question I'd ask "who of the Golden Agers specified regular fairway widths as an integral part of design strategy?".

C.B. Macdonald and Travis come quickly to mind.
 
I would imagine that Donald Ross had similar feelings

I'm curious about where we are heading...and where we have been. It's good to take the pulse every so often.
 
Trends/Fads come and go.
 
Enlightened courses such as Essex County, Mountain Ridge, National, Southampton, Westhampton, Old White, Shinnecock, Garden City and others understand the architectural value of width and it's impact on playability.

[Jason Topp]

Not a trend at Northland Country Club.  Those fairways have widened significantly with the removal of trees and coversion of rough to fairway.  It may make the course play more difficult because a ball going the wrong way will keep going that way.

[Brent Hutto]

Jason,


Let's say a ball now can roll 30 yards from the centerline without being stopped by trees or rough where formerly it might have been stopped just 20 yards from the center. What enforces the additional difficulty? Are there trees between the green and where the ball ends up? Or does it mean going over a bunker?


I ask this because absent other difficulties, that ball rolling 10 yards farther offline is probably also rolling 20-25 yards closer to the green at the same time. Seems it would take a considerable bit of green contour and firmness or some additional obstacle to make a 130 yard shot from short grass *more* difficult than a 150 yard shot from the former rough.

[Tim_Weiman]

Paul,


I hope not. Based on observing golf for more than fifty years, one thing is pretty clear: a Moe Norman may occasionally appear, but the vast majority of people playing golf can't hit a ball straight and certainly not tee shots with a driver.

[Jason Topp]

Jason,


Let's say a ball now can roll 30 yards from the centerline without being stopped by trees or rough where formerly it might have been stopped just 20 yards from the center. What enforces the additional difficulty? Are there trees between the green and where the ball ends up? Or does it mean going over a bunker?


I ask this because absent other difficulties, that ball rolling 10 yards farther offline is probably also rolling 20-25 yards closer to the green at the same time. Seems it would take a considerable bit of green contour and firmness or some additional obstacle to make a 130 yard shot from short grass *more* difficult than a 150 yard shot from the former rough.

Brent - At Northland, here are a few examples based on my obeservations yesterday.  Others know the course better than me so I am always open to correction:
7 - 436 yard par four - slight dogleg right with a reverse camber.  Left side of the fairway used to be rough which meant a tee shot down the left side of the corridor wound up just fine.  Now the ground is firm and slopes to the left which means (1) you are out wide on a long par four and might have a longer shot than if it just caught up in the rough and are hitting a bit more uphill over a bunker; (2) you bring trees and a creek into play that otherwise would not be a consideration; and (3) you bring the potential for a more awkward lie into play.
10 - 410 yard par 4 (but the 2nd plays extremely uphill to a false front so this plays much longer).  You want to try and shorten your second but the wide fairway means that if you do so it stands a good chance of rolling into a water hazard that guards the corner.  An approach shot short is rolling back 40 yards unless it goes in the rough so the wider the fairway the more difficult the challenge.
16 - 446 yard par 4 - plays very much downhill but wider fairway makes it more likely your tee shot is going to wind up in a bigtime downhill lie ( tough to explain why but trust me).  Hitting a shot from 170 to a green from a severe downhill lie is a difficult task - one I failed at yesterday.  185 from the relatively thin rough and a flatter lie would be easier.   

[Mark_Fine]

Without question the trend has been for wider fairways and varying fairway widths.  I am fully supportive of this for many good reasons which most of us here understand.  The challenge, however, is managing the cost to maintain more fairway grass as well as more and more concerns about water conservation.  Where things will go in the future is hard to say but one thing I am very certain of is that the cost to manage and maintain most golf courses has to come down as the game is continuing to get more and more expensive. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brent,
 
Think "angles"
 
While a ball may roll closer to the green it may become more disadvantaged in terms of the angle of approach.
 
Probably the best example might be hitting into the 17th at TOC from further and further left of the fairway.

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