Better Nine

[jeffwarne]

Pwllheli
Porthmadog
Easthampton(though opinions vary on which nine is better)

[Frank Kim]

Then by the same logic how about Spyglass?

[Carr Harris]

As many others have said, Kirtland CC is the prime example I've seen.

Also I found the back 9 at The Honors Course to be far more interesting than the front.

[Terry Lavin]

The back nine at Olympia Fields North and the front nine of the South would be a better 18 than either course currently has. The front at North has some great holes, but the back steps on the gas on 12 and doesn't let up until the round is over.   A great stretch over very interesting terrain.   As for the South, 1-7 is a varied and demanding stretch with some real drama. 8 is a bit of a cobbled together breather and 9 is a gem of a long par-4 with an awesome green. The back nine isn't nearly as compelling.

[Josh Tarble]

Funny this is brought up, just played Pasatiempo and was talking with someone about how much better the back 9 is than the front.  The front isn't bad necessarily, but has 2 or 3 of the weakest holes on the course.  The back 9 has a much better flow and a several world class holes.


Also interesting that Cypress Point, Crystal Downs, Augusta and Pasatiempo have all been brought up. 

[Matthew Sander]

I found the front 9 at Blue Mound to be far superior to the back 9. The templates on the front are bolder and the perimeter of the property is much more interesting than the interior. The stretch of holes 6-9 is outstanding.

[Phil Lipper]

One of the biggest differences in a front vs back 9 would have to be Essex County Country Club in NJ. The front 9 is ok and is a fun golf course, the back 9 is one of the best 9's in NJ.

[Phil McDade]

I found the front 9 at Blue Mound to be far superior to the back 9. The templates on the front are bolder and the perimeter of the property is much more interesting than the interior. The stretch of holes 6-9 is outstanding.

The back nine at Blue Mound has the best green on the course, the best par 3 on the course, and a terrific Cape.


The front nine probably sits on better terrain, for the most part, but mainly because of holes 7, 8 and 9; has probably the 2nd and 3rd best greens on the course; a terrific Road hole; and probably the best overall hole.


The front nine might be the better nine, but I'm not sure it's far superior.

[Michael Goldstein]

Royal Melbourne Composite, the front nine is much better (best 9 holes in the world?)

[Matthew Sander]

I found the front 9 at Blue Mound to be far superior to the back 9. The templates on the front are bolder and the perimeter of the property is much more interesting than the interior. The stretch of holes 6-9 is outstanding.

The back nine at Blue Mound has the best green on the course, the best par 3 on the course, and a terrific Cape.


The front nine probably sits on better terrain, for the most part, but mainly because of holes 7, 8 and 9; has probably the 2nd and 3rd best greens on the course; a terrific Road hole; and probably the best overall hole.


The front nine might be the better nine, but I'm not sure it's far superior.

Phil,


At the risk of derailing the thread, I would argue that the Cape is not a Cape...in the slightest. That doesn't mean it is a poor hole. As a matter of fact, it may be the best or one of the best on the back 9. If it is a Cape, then I wouldn't know a Cape from my elbow.


I also should add that I meant to point out the stretch of holes 5-9 on the front, with 6 being being more pedestrian than the others. The 5th is their Road, and has a really majestic greensite.

[Chris_Blakely]

A classic 9-holer that was ruined at a later date would be Mohawk GC in (Tiffin,OH).  Back 9 is one of my favorite Ross nines I have played.  As Tom mentioned earlier, he used the best land on the course.

I would not say Mohawk was ruined. Original nine appears almost unchanged as newer front nine is on opposite side of clubhouse on uninspired flat land.

Chris

[BCowan]

A classic 9-holer that was ruined at a later date would be Mohawk GC in (Tiffin,OH).  Back 9 is one of my favorite Ross nines I have played.  As Tom mentioned earlier, he used the best land on the course.

I would not say Mohawk was ruined. Original nine appears almost unchanged as newer front nine is on opposite side of clubhouse on uninspired flat land.

Chris

Chris,

    You miss understood me.  The original 9 (the back) was ruined because it was turned into an 18 hole course.  It would of been much better had it remained a 9 hole course imo.  There is some movement on the front, #9 

[Jeff Goldman]

It would be hard to top West Bend for disparity between the nines (well, 8 and 10).  The Langford front is every bit the equal of Lawsonia, maybe on more dramatic land.  The David Gill holes are not just nondescript, but even a little offensive given what's on the front.  Something like a 5 or 6 point difference on the 10 point scale.  I doubt the wea[/size]ker nine's of [/color][/size]Augusta or Oa[/color][/size]kland Hills or whatever are 4s.  [/color][/size]Caveat that things may have change over the past few years with Mi[/color][/size]ke McGuire's efforts.[/color]

[Jud_T]

I believe our own Ian Larson is involved in renovating West Bend.

[Jud_T]

 

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Abersoch in North Wales used to be a lovely 9-hole links. Somebody built nine inland holes and mixed up the routing, so now you get a mish-mash on both nines.

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,

    You miss understood me.  The original 9 (the back) was ruined because it was turned into an 18 hole course.  It would of been much better had it remained a 9 hole course imo.  There is some movement on the front, #9 
[/quote]

Ben,

We are then 100% in agreement because the added 9 holes changed nothing on the original 9 holes.  Yes, you are right there is some movement where there greens poke above see level.

Chris

[Phil McDade]

I found the front 9 at Blue Mound to be far superior to the back 9. The templates on the front are bolder and the perimeter of the property is much more interesting than the interior. The stretch of holes 6-9 is outstanding.

The back nine at Blue Mound has the best green on the course, the best par 3 on the course, and a terrific Cape.


The front nine probably sits on better terrain, for the most part, but mainly because of holes 7, 8 and 9; has probably the 2nd and 3rd best greens on the course; a terrific Road hole; and probably the best overall hole.


The front nine might be the better nine, but I'm not sure it's far superior.

Phil,


At the risk of derailing the thread, I would argue that the Cape is not a Cape...in the slightest. That doesn't mean it is a poor hole. As a matter of fact, it may be the best or one of the best on the back 9. If it is a Cape, then I wouldn't know a Cape from my elbow.

Matthew:


Right after you posted this, I had to go out of town and was busy for about a week. But I wanted to return to this, because I think many folks tend to view a MacRaynor "Cape" one-dimensionally: the how-much-should-I-bite-off question faced on the tee.


I'd refer you to the GCA interview with the late George Bahto, still the definitive source on this site for MacRaynor templates:
http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/george-bahto/


Here's George on the distinguishing characteristics of a Cape: The ‘Cape’ hole, according to Macdonald, was first labeled that (not first designed) when he built the 14th at NGLA. Most people think it is the angle of the tee-ball play that makes it a ‘Cape hole’ – not true. The word ‘cape’ refers to a body of land jutting into a body of water, forming a small peninsula. Macdonald 14th ‘Cape’ green originally jutted into the bay, but was subsequently moved in the late 1920s for two reasons. One was that downwind, big hitters were attempting to drive the green. The second was the necessity of constructing a new access road along the edge of the shoreline. Macdonald moved the green to the left further onto shore and surrounded it with sand.[/size] [/color]
[/size][/color]
The nature of the Cape hole has evolved, it seems (with Pete Dye driving much of this, I'd argue), to focus solely on the drive, when to me it's clear Macdonald and Raynor wanted to create a challenge for the player on the approach shot by creating trouble all around for the mis-played shot into the green (the body of land jutting into a body of water).

I'd argue the Cape at Blue Mound does this exceptionally well -- while the long (50 yards) diagonal fairway bunker creates a bite-off-what-you-choose choice for the player on the tee, it's the approach shot that invokes a high degree of risk given what a missed shot encounters by emulating the nature of a "cape." From my Blue Mound thread of a few years ago (the Cape is #11):
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45401.0.html

[Matt Bielawa]

I'll nominate Irondequoit CC for this one.  The front nine is a blast with 3 par 3's, 3 par 4's, and 3 par 5's, all on a great piece of land with lots of undulations.  It's the original Ross nine.  The back nine isn't awful, but is less fun, more boring, and completely different.

[Doug Siebert]

Ballybunion Old.  The last few holes of the front nine get going, but it is a pretty hard to get excited about the first 5 1/2 (I do like the 6th green)

The back nine may be the best nine in all of golf.

[Jeff Fortson]

Rio Rico Golf Club 45-60 miles south of Tuscon, AZ.

[Mike Benham]

Then by the same logic how about Spyglass?

Well, the front 9 at Spyglass, dunes holes included, is not really all that special.  So in my mind, the quality of the front and back are about the same ...