Arizona Golf

[Joey Chase]

I played Southern Dunes - refreshingly different as it isn't the typical desert target golf.


Desert Forest is far more difficult since their renovation and many of the members are rather upset with what was done.

Jerry,

I can see how many of the members would be upset with the, in some places, severe green contours.  I hadn't played the course before the work was done.  Were there many changes to the course beyond the greens and bunker shaping?  Outside of the greens, I didn't find the course to be so difficult and with a fair amount of room in the fairways as well.

[Jerry Kluger]

Joey: I was told by a long time member of Desert Forest who is an excellent player that the course is far too difficult for most players when it is playing firm and fast.  The greens are elevated and contoured and really tough while the bunkers are much deeper and difficult.  He told me that Aaron Baddeley went from a +4 before the renovation to a 1 afterwards.  I played it after a heavy rain and it was very soft so I didn't experience the normal conditions.  I really like the character of the place as they have kept the original clubhouse which is very understated and the course was built for walking as there are short walks between greens and tees.(They had push carts which I and the members I played with used.) To me the course wasn't quite as wide as I have usually seen in the desert.

[astavrides]

He told me that Aaron Baddeley went from a +4 before the renovation to a 1 afterwards.

I haven't played the course, but somebody is pulling somebody's leg with that statement.

[Dave Givnish]

Badds is at Whisper Rock too, so I doubt that his handicap went up that much. His DF scores would just be non-counters in his last 20. Desert Forest was never that wide. It has the same amount of turf as Troon North Monument without the washes that cross most of the holes at TN.


The changes to Desert Forest away from the greens include the following. The changes to about 20 yards out from the greens are generally well regarded.
- tee additions - the course now has something like 6 or 7 options on each hole, and no hard data, but my sense is that most members play one or even two tees forward of where they played before the work;
- removal of about 150 trees - mostly non-native Chilean mesquites that grew in along the fairway perimeters;
- changes in fairway widths on #6, #7, #13, and #18 to pinch in landing areas for long hitters;
- complete blow up on #14 to make a drivable par 4;


The bunker area was increased about 30%. The green on hole 16 (par 5 with the tree in the fairway) was pushed back 15 yards or more.

[Pete_Pittock]

The only two Phoenix area courses I have played are Talking Stick North and Southern Dunes. Even with a 3-club wind on the back 9 at Southern Dunes I would keep going back (7-3 or 8-2 over TSN.) The bunkering is better, and they are much easier on ingress-egress - believe me I had a bunch of practice on both. Greens are big enough with a lot more going on, plus they were rolling about 1.5 stimp faster. Good to very good conditioning. There was enough width so that the hole locations and greenside bunkering did reward a well placed drive.  The Monday round at SD was at least a half-hour faster than Sunday at TSN, where we waited on most tees. Well worth the drive, maybe a scaled seven.

[Bill_McBride]

The only two Phoenix area courses I have played are Talking Stick North and Southern Dunes. Even with a 3-club wind on the back 9 at Southern Dunes I would keep going back (7-3 or 8-2 over TSN.) The bunkering is better, and they are much easier on ingress-egress - believe me I had a bunch of practice on both. Greens are big enough with a lot more going on, plus they were rolling about 1.5 stimp faster. Good to very good conditioning. There was enough width so that the hole locations and greenside bunkering did reward a well placed drive.  The Monday round at SD was at least a half-hour faster than Sunday at TSN, where we waited on most tees. Well worth the drive, maybe a scaled seven.

I rate TSN a little higher because I think it has some outstanding holes (2, 4, 12) while I don't remember any at SD.  The latter is a really solid course but fails my memorability test.  You're right about the bunkering, it's really well done.

[Dave Givnish]

Grand Canyon should be in the list of courses to play on a travel day. It's relatively close to the airport. It is a screaming value after the renovation. Added bonus is that it's about a mile from the Brewers' spring training park.


Sad to say, but 5-hour rounds are the norm during the high season on public tracks. Too many golfers playing too far back = SLOW golf.

[Tom Ferrell]

The changes to Desert Forest are OUTSTANDING.  The history of Desert Forest is that it was ALWAYS a difficult course.  From the gate, it was hailed as the "Pine Valley of the Desert," (due in great part to architect Red Lawrence's work as an associate for William Flynn).


The club's membership has aged more rapidly than it has grown.  There was a percentage of members who felt that the character of the golf course changed with the renovations and became more difficult.  I don't think most people believe that at all.  The course was 50 years old.  It needed a shave and haircut.  The small number of negative  reaction was more about resistance to change than a referendum on golf course design.


Desert Forest is unique and is a desert treasure.  Once-removed from Flynn and now enhanced by being once-removed from Coore & Crenshaw.  The place has more of its original character and, yes, some teeth. As it was designed to.


I think you'll see DFGC returning to its rightful place as one of Arizona's truly top-tier courses and clubs. 

[Tom Ferrell]

If you want to see for yourself what the project entailed, check out...


http://www.desertforestgolfclub.com/Golf-Course-Project

[MWagner]

I recently got back from the Desert...we went an hour northwest of the airport to Quintero Golf Club....and it was just that...a golf club. I'm sure someone here knows the story but from my trained eye, it was an elite club/community opening at the wrong time. I couldn't believe how perfect the conditions were on top of an amazing canvas. Grade A.