[Will Lozier]

While home visiting my mother and family and on the heals of playing perhaps my favorite course that I play regularly (at least yearly) and on which I grew up, Springfield Country Club, I had the pleasure of take a short drive down to Dayton to play another local Ross design Miami Valley Golf Club the following day. Much has been said about SCC here and I would love to add more, but, I haven't been able to find anything in previous threads about MVGC.

MVGC hosted the 1931 Western Open and 1957 PGA Championship, the last held as a match play event. It sits in a declining part northwest Dayton and has lost a little luster, but it is an ideal membership if you like no tee times, a very enjoyable walk, and a superb routing which uses every little feature beautifully on the mildly sloping lot with lots of ridges and a few streams throughout. The stately clubhouse seems to be much more than the club may need at this point but it is a stunning building that sits proudly and gives the place that sense of something grander.

I thought the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 16th, & 18th were all excellent golf holes that used the terrain perfectly to create interest and strategy. Every other hole was solid with perhaps the long 3rd being the only really bland hole. The par-4 holes have lots of shape to them in terms of doglegs and variety in length - the short 4th, 12th, and 18th all unique. The one-shotters are interesting, heading in three different directions with the 13th from knob to knob the best. The greens and greensites are old school - they look benign but there are places you cannot miss. I loved it.

Who has played MVGC and what is your take? Is it underappreciated?

[Mike Schott]

I've played it a number of times but it was many years ago so my memories are vague. The clearest is that 18 is a great closer. David Stewart who posts here is a member.

[BHoover]

Unfortunately, I have not played Miami Valley. It tends to be overlooked compared to its neighbors in the area--NCR, Moraine and Springfield.

[Brian Finn]

I've played Miami Valley GC a couple of times.  It is a pleasant course - perhaps a bit under the radar - but not in the same league as Springfield.  I'd consider it middle of the pack among the ~30 Ross courses I have played.  I believe they are hosting the US Hickory Open this year.

[noonan]

Interesting take.

6, 10, 14, 17 are some of my favorite holes.

6 requires a great drive and the 3 tier green can be a monster to putt.

The green complex on 10 is second to non. Any putt made from pin high would have 3 or 4 feet of break minimum.

14 has the punch bowl green and requires a very accurate approach.

17 is the hardest green to 2 putt on the course. 165 yards and the target is small.

Behind NCR and Moraine it is the best in town. Easy to walk - greens and tees are close. It is not penal off the tee and not all the green complexes are over challenging but angles of approach on many holes are very important if playing for a birdie. The par 3's will test you!

[Donovan Childers]

Played a tournament there this past weekend, it's a fun little course. The conditions have held up well all summer. I got to play the course in May as well. It played just a little shorter than it did in May, and it gives you some chances to take some risk and rack up some birdies.  I liked 4,6,9,17, 18
10 green stands out. It's just a good mix of holes. I believe this course is the second oldest Ross course in the state.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Good timing on this thread as I'm moving to Dayton next month.  When looking through various websites the recommended places to join in Dayton appear to be NCR, Moraine, Dayton CC, Springfield CC and Miami Valley GC.  There are also some mentions about the CC of the North but I kind of ruled that one out.

I really am a Donald Ross fan (learned to play on a Ross course in Maine and plan to die a member of Ross courses in NC).  Dayton, Springfield and Miami Valley got a bit of a bump on my list of places to consider because of this love but Miami Valley GC no longer has a functioning website (or one that blocks overseas IP addresses - http://www.miamivalleygolfclub.com/).  I took that as a bad sign and didn't pursue contacting them because of that fact.  Maybe their intention is to screen individuals who use the internet as a resource in selecting a club and they prefer recruitment via word of mouth.

Jerry are you a member at MVGC?

[Criss Titschinger]

Joe, the website seems to be functioning for me. I assure you they would be happy to hear from you if you're looking for a club.


I played Miami Valley last year and found it a very pleasurable round of golf. Plenty of scoring chances, but other places where you need to be precise. 2, 4, 9 and 18 I remember as being my favorite. As others have stated, it's an easy walk and tees are close to greens. The front 9 is a bit more flat, but it does have more movement in the back 9.


While it's not in the best neighborhood, you can't really tell that once you're inside the gates. I would compare its location to Maketewah in Cincinnati, although Mak is louder with the trains and interstate highway closer by.


Not at the top echelon of courses in Dayton (Moraine, NCR), but certainly worth of a play if you're in the area.

[Will Lozier]

Good timing on this thread as I'm moving to Dayton next month.  When looking through various websites the recommended places to join in Dayton appear to be NCR, Moraine, Dayton CC, Springfield CC and Miami Valley GC.  There are also some mentions about the CC of the North but I kind of ruled that one out.

I really am a Donald Ross fan (learned to play on a Ross course in Maine and plan to die a member of Ross courses in NC).  Dayton, Springfield and Miami Valley got a bit of a bump on my list of places to consider because of this love but Miami Valley GC no longer has a functioning website (or one that blocks overseas IP addresses - http://www.miamivalleygolfclub.com/).  I took that as a bad sign and didn't pursue contacting them because of that fact.  Maybe their intention is to screen individuals who use the internet as a resource in selecting a club and they prefer recruitment via word of mouth.

Jerry are you a member at MVGC?

Joe,


The website must simply have an issue with overseas IP's as it is in fact functioning. We played with a high school classmate of mine, a former winner and runner-up of the Dayton Match Play who recently joined himself after living in the area a long time. The surrounding neighborhood is a little sketchy (unless you've lived in Atlanta and played East Lake) but I can see it making a resurgence at some point. But, the club itself is wonderful IMHO for one who is interested in a golf club rather than a country club. He is very happy even though his wife is a bit troubled by the neighborhood and lack of attention to amenities (they do have a nice little pool). I'd be happy to put you in contact with my buddy if you'd like to do some research. Message me if interested.


SCC is my absolute favorite club in the world, I grew up working there and playing quite often and my mother lives a hundred yards from the 6th hole. Certainly look into this but you'd be in for a much longer drive if you actually lived in Dayton proper. I have many friends who are/were members there as well.


Cheers

[BHoover]

Will, I'm with you on singing Springfield's praises.

Not to sidetrack the point of this thread, which is to give some attention to Miami Valley, but if you are in the area, do yourself a favor and play Springfield!

[Chris DeToro]

Having lived in Dayton for a couple of years, I've played MVCC.  It's a solid course and they've hosted their share of local and state events over the years.  The location leaves a lot to be desired though--to say it's seen better days is an understatement

[Tom Allen]

I've played it once, and echo all the other sentiments.  An enjoyable Ross course.  Springfield is a step up, but MVGC is a fun track in its own right.  Some of the greens had really good internal contouring if I recall.

Little known fact (in fact, unknown to anyone but me):  That course is where I shot the best round I ever played, so I should be giving it a 10!  I have not had a chance to return, but would in a heartbeat.

P.S.  Website worked for me as well.

[Mark Jackson]

I was born and raised in the Dayton area and played Miami Valley GC on many occasions growing up (its probably been 10 to 12 years since I last played there though). The club definitely suffers from being on the "wrong side of town." MVGC is a pleasant walk with a tight routing. It has a decent set of greens as far as Ross courses are concerned. My favorite holes are 4, 14 (although its in a very tight corner of the property) and 18.[size=78%] [/size][/size]I agree with many of the comments that have already been made, but I'm just not as high on MVGC as others have been. Of the private Ross courses I have played in Ohio, I would put it in the lower half.



In my opinion, of the private clubs in Dayton, NCR South is head-and-shoulders above anything else, followed by Moraine (although I am excited to see how Moraine's current restoration/renovation turns out), and then Dayton CC. I would group MVGC below those three and in a similar tier with Country Club of the North (a standard 90's Nicklaus design) and Walnut Grove (a sporty Bill Diddel track that always had a reputation for a very well-manicured set of greens).

[Matt Frey, PGA]

I am from Cincinnati, but have not played MVGC. But I am curious how it compares to other Ross designs in the area, such as Maketewah and Hyde Park or even as far south as Idle Hour?

[noonan]

Jerry are you a member at MVGC?

I am no longer a member. I was for 3 years.

The neighborhood can be flat out dangerous. Salem Avenue is ok but I would not want to get stopped at a light. You would want to have enough gas to get 8-10 miles when leaving the course because it is not safe to stop for gas. I 75 is about 5 miles south and you want to get there. To the north it is still 5 miles to a safe stop.

Depending on your budget my places to join would be NCR > Moraine > CCN > Miami Valley > Dayton > Walnut Grove > Sugar Valley.

If you are moving into Greene county then the trip to Springfield is 15-20 minutes and that would be the place to join.

[BHoover]

That's unfortunate, Jerry. I had no idea about the neighborhood. I did have a similar feeling about the neighborhood surrounding Detroit GC (although there were some really nice old homes close to the course too). But I had the same feeling about not wanting to get stopped at a light after dark.

It's unfortunate that once-thriving Dayton (as evidenced by the depth of private golf) has fallen on such tough times. I do wonder how some of those courses survive (and it's not just Ohio, although it seems all too common in the Midwest).

[noonan]

That's unfortunate, Jerry. I had no idea about the neighborhood. I did have a similar feeling about the neighborhood surrounding Detroit GC (although there were some really nice old homes close to the course too). But I had the same feeling about not wanting to get stopped at a light after dark.

It's unfortunate that once-thriving Dayton (as evidenced by the depth of private golf) has fallen on such tough times. I do wonder how some of those courses survive (and it's not just Ohio, although it seems all too common in the Midwest).

Greene Country Club closed last year mid year and has not reopened. Piqua opened late this year. Meadowbrook and Greenville are now public courses. That is the run down of private courses.

Public courses - we lost Penn Terra, Larch Tree, and Hidden Lakes. I can see a couple more public courses closing before next season.

Dayton has fallen on hard times.

[Criss Titschinger]

I am from Cincinnati, but have not played MVGC. But I am curious how it compares to other Ross designs in the area, such as Maketewah and Hyde Park or even as far south as Idle Hour?

I suppose it depends how far you cast the net. Let's go ahead and add Broadmoor and French Lick in the mix, but excluding anything Columbus and North. You're probably looking at something that looks this. Note I haven't played all courses mentioned; ranking based on study and observation.


Platinum Tier:
Idle Hour


Gold Tier:
Springfield
Broadmoor


Silver Tier:
French Lick
Hyde Park


Bronze Tier:
Miami Valley
Maketewah
Dayton


Participant Tier
Piqua (only 9 Ross holes knocks it down a bit. Glad it reopened)
Hamilton Elks (Ross 18. Hurdzan 9 is mostly forgettable)
Miami Shores (Muni. Not really comparable)

[Jason Thurman]

I'm sure Tarbs will have some complaints about your Silver Tier as soon as he gets back from whatever wedding he's no doubt just attended, reads your ranking, and finishes wiping the tears of denigration from his eyes.

[BHoover]

Can someone who has played each of Idle Hour, Broadmoor and Springfield weigh in on this tier system?

Criss, I think you should take it upon yourself to verify this ranking!

[Criss Titschinger]

Can someone who has played each of Idle Hour, Broadmoor and Springfield weigh in on this tier system?

Criss, I think you should take it upon yourself to verify this ranking!

I feel I owe it to Brian, Jason, Matt Frey and the rest of the GCA readership to take upon this task of verifying what I have laid forth.


May Donald Ross look after me:



Stay tuned...

[BHoover]

Godspeed, Criss

[Philip Caccamise]

Can someone who has played each of Idle Hour, Broadmoor and Springfield weigh in on this tier system?

Criss, I think you should take it upon yourself to verify this ranking!

I don't think Broadmoor is as good as Springfield, but that's probably just me. And I like Miami Valley as much as French Lick for sure and Hyde Park.


Idle Hour stands alone at the top of this group.

[noonan]

I do not know what Springfield has over Miami Valley other than elevation change. Shot values are very similar.

[David Stewart]

I haven't checked the discussion group in a while so missed this, but I am currently a member here. My wife and I are expecting our first child so that may force us to cancel our membership, but we'll have to see.
I have only played Moraine and Dayton CC of the other good courses in town. Moraine is definitely better, but I think MVGC beats DCC due to the sometimes overly severe terrain at DCC and somewhat awkward routing because of that and the total acreage. MVGC is in a bad part of town, but if you can deal with getting there, the membership rates are fantastic for the quality golf course you get, and you never need a tee time. My favorite time to play is in the evenings when I can walk 18 in less than 2.5 hours.
I have enjoyed all the comments on the course. The greens are really the highlight. It is not too difficult a driving course, and I rarely lose a ball, but you need to be precise to leave the easiest approach. My favorite green complex is probably 6 even though it is bunkerless. Tons of different recovery options and the green itself is fantastic. 10 is also great. There is just a ton of variety in them. Some are crowned, some have valleys, some have ridges, some are mainly flat with just subtle breaks.
Ross really did a great job with the routing. He actually lived on site for a while so he was heavily involved in the design, rather than many courses where he only looked at a topography map. He really got the most out of the land, which makes it still strategic without the need for endless fairway bunkers or water hazards. From finding the green locations for holes like 2, 12, and 13, to the use of the creek on 15 and 16, it was a great job.

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