Should Turnberry new 9th be a short par 4 or a long par 3?

[Thomas Dai]

The idea of keeping the wall and making a player who bails out to the right play over it to the green is interesting.

Indeed, the whole matter of what's over the back and sides of the green and how close they are to the green itself would seem the key element in this hole especially as the prevailing wind would be I believe from behind. For example, unless there's something potentially pretty nasty directly over the green, or the green itself is sloped severely from the front up to the rear, then instead of any element of potentially high scoring daliance with the front cliff edge, the best play could be interpreted as 'wack the tee ball to the rear or even over the back of the green and chip or putt back into the wind'.
atb

[Ben Stephens]

The idea of keeping the wall and making a player who bails out to the right play over it to the green is interesting.

Indeed, the whole matter of what's over the back and sides of the green and how close they are to the green itself would seem the key element in this hole especially as the prevailing wind would be I believe from behind. For example, unless there's something potentially pretty nasty directly over the green, or the green itself is sloped severely from the front up to the rear, then instead of any element of potentially high scoring daliance with the front cliff edge, the best play could be interpreted as 'wack the tee ball to the rear or even over the back of the green and chip or putt back into the wind'.
atb

Thomas


There are a lot what ifs


If the green sloped front to back at this location it would therefore be blind because the ground where the green is higher than the tee


I would have a gentle slope right to left away from the wall not too severe for the green so it is visible from the tees and natural dips on the left as hollows with a mixture of short and long grasses


The rear could be short grasses up to 10 to 15 yards from the rear edge of the green


It is all about giving the golfer options off the tee and allow them a small chance for birdie if they are marginally off the green


Here the scores will prob range between 2 and 8 depending how the hole is played and the risk and reward shots would be rather exciting to watch on TV


Cheers Ben

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ben I wish I'd seen your drawing before I walked out to the lighthouse last month!  Looks fun and would be real delight and a surprise. 

Did you walk the land?  I wonder how much earth would have to be moved to make it possible? 

[Tom Kelly]

Ben,

I really like the concept but I think there might be some practical issues that would prevent it form being built. The gap between the wall and rocky edge where you have sited the green is extremely narrow or at least the usable land is. It is probably as little as 15m in reality so the green would have to be tiny. Is this enough room for your green? I think you'd see lots of tourists smashing around in the rocks even from short approach shots from the fairway. It is also very likely that beneath this is virtually pure rock too, making it extremely difficult (though not impossible) to build a green on. I believe their plan to get around the rock is to build the green up slightly with new material from elsewhere on site and on the slightly higher ground away from the rocks anyway. In your location this would probably obscure/cover some of the wall which you are trying to maintain. There are also some areas between the walled area and lighthouse that are very sensitive archaeological (Turnberry Castle) and SSSI areas and I'm not sure they even have the necessary permission for the 10th back tee just yet so where you have sited the green is likely to encroach on these areas. What about future coastal erosion?

They are planning to re-use the stone from the wall to build a new bridge for the 16th green so it's not going to be completely lost.

But again I do like the concept!


Despite the dubious reception the R&A's architectural work gets on GCA I think the changes will be a big improvement based on what I've seen.

[Niall C]

Tom


Are you sure the R&A are footing the bill for this work ? Even though MacKenzie & Ebert are doing the work, I suspect it is all being financed by and at the behest of Trump but could be wrong.


Niall

[Tom Kelly]

Tom


Are you sure the R&A are footing the bill for this work ? Even though MacKenzie & Ebert are doing the work, I suspect it is all being financed by and at the behest of Trump but could be wrong.


Niall

By saying the "R&A's architectural work" I was referring to the work done on Open rota courses by their shall we say 'preferred' architects of Martin Hawtree and Martin Ebert. I was never implying or otherwise that the R&A was funding the work at all but I'm sure they will have been consulted along the way.

[Jon Wiggett]

By reusing the stonework from the wall does that mean they are planning some horrific, mutated version of the Swilcan Burn Bridge at the 16th?

Jon