Dawson’s case for Old Course changes

[Sean Walsh]

Mark,


Those bunkers on 2 are pretty hard to miss.


The reduction of the ridge on 17 is noticeable even on TV, so were the ripples that were holding water when that area didn't hold water from a bigger flood in 07.


Moving the bunkers on 3 seems an entirely reasonable proposal but I haven't seen them closely in the telecast, although only required because drives go 290+ yds now. The first few only ever caught the hackers anyway.


11 I think I'd need to see in person due to the flattening effect of TV and photos


I don't much like the changes to 7s fairway but decent reports from green keepers and management could be persuasive. Any gorse gone on 6, 7 12 is a good thing. As would less rough on 6 & 7

[James Bennett]

Sean

Dawson's Folly?

[Adrian_Stiff]

TOC has to move on. It always has. If this board existed from the nineteen-sixties some would have ridiculed the installation of an irrigation system, the addition of new back tees at 13 holes, perhaps even mowing as closely as 6mm on the fairways. So if some of this board had it's way it's likely TOC would not have staged an Open past 1970.

I don't understand how some think a new back tee is okay but moving a bunker is not and have defined moving a bunker as no it's sacred.

[Bill_McBride]

Having played TOC a couple of times before and after the changes you wouldn't notice any difference other than the removal of the gorse in front of the 7th tee.

Sixth tee

From the televised views, there was definitely a lot of gorse removed in front of the seventh tee.  It looked like different colored turf where it used to be.  I can recall gorse down the right side of six fairway and once regrettably visited it. 

[Tom_Doak]

TOC has to move on. It always has. If this board existed from the nineteen-sixties some would have ridiculed the installation of an irrigation system, the addition of new back tees at 13 holes, perhaps even mowing as closely as 6mm on the fairways. So if some of this board had it's way it's likely TOC would not have staged an Open past 1970.

I don't understand how some think a new back tee is okay but moving a bunker is not and have defined moving a bunker as no it's sacred.

Adrian:


I don't wish to belabor the point, but you really don't think there is a difference that the course is exactly the same as it always was from the medal tees in scenario (a) , and forever changed in scenario (b) ?


It is still a great course regardless of the changes, but the changes made zero difference to this championship as near as I could tell.  So why make them, other than to show who's in charge?

[Sean Walsh]

James,


It seems Mr Dawson has a desire to have his name attached to the course. I would deny him that status, even in effigy

[Colin Macqueen]

Sean, my dear chap, apology not accepted!


"My suggestion on another thread was "The Dundee's" A place no-one visits. Apologies to any Dundeans."
Very, very funny but......


As a Dundonian I know if, in the pub on a Saturday night, you called some likely  lad a "Dundean" in his ale-induced euphoria he would "heider" you!!  You see  Scottish education is a fine thing but does not extend to a drunken Dundonian differentiating between a "Dundean" and a "dunderheid". He has never heard of a "Dundean" so will be suspicious but as he has been called a "dunderheid" on numerous occasions he easily understands the implications of your slur. His honour is challenged and his response is atavistic.


Now you may think that given this your thesis that Dundee is a place no one visits is supported. Not at all, not at all! Dundee nestles on the cleanest river in Europe and is the gateway to many a fine golf course.  The town has a world class repertory theatre, a first class University in regards to research and teaching, a branch of The Victorian and Albert Museum, and denizens of distinction. You may well ask, then, why I fled the spires of Dundee 45 years ago. As a callow youth filled with exuberance, lust and a sense of adventure I did not discern the qualities of my home town.  But I do, as a Dundonian, know when our Tayside haven has been slighted!  Ach …did I mention our self-deprecating manner and sense of humour!!


Cheers Colin

[Sean Walsh]

Colin,

That as fine a gent as yourself is of Dundonian stock is clearly enough to sway the argument. I again offer my sincerest apologies.

[Tom Kelly]

Did anyone go in the new bunkers on 2?

[Niall C]

Tom


Perhaps a more relevant question would be did any of the players take them into consideration when playing there approach ?


Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

If anyone thinks Dawson was able to sit in his office think up changes and force them through you are seriously deluded. What does happen though is he is the CEO and the buck stops with him, not many organisations can say that nowadays, so when he says "I" he is talking about the R&A and accepting the good and bad that comes with it.

[Sean Walsh]

Mark,

The funny thing about that is that if he is taking responsibility for it as CEO of the R&A he is operating outside his remit. The body that shoulders ultimate responsibility is the Links Trust. The R&A are in the room but subordinate to the Links Management Committee. As the Links website states:

The Links Management Committee oversees the maintenance and management of the courses on the Links. The nominating bodies for the committees are the Scottish Government, Fife Council and the R&A. Devolved from the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews, the R&A organises The Open Championship and together with the USGA, governs the game worldwide. The R&A is a separate organisation from St Andrews Links.

Which raises the question of whether he was intimately involved and therefore taking due responsibility for being at the centre of the changes or is he grandstanding on behalf of his organisation?

For what it's worth, and I may be mistaken, I believe Mr Dawson was on the R&A championship committee at the time and I thought I read somewhere he was also on the Links Management Committee. You are entirely correct though that this was not one man's decision.
 

[Niall C]

Sean


When the changes were first discussed I looked into it and from memory the Links committee consists of 7, with 2 from the R&A, 2 from Fife Council, the local MP (?) and two from the Links Trust. Speaking from memory so could be out with those numbers but do recall the R&A did not have a majority or anything like it. That said, clearly the Links Trust and the R&A are the prime decision makers and between them they have a majority (assuming my dodgy memory is correct).


Niall

[Sean Walsh]

Niall,

Yes I have a similar recollection.

[Adrian_Stiff]

TOC has to move on. It always has. If this board existed from the nineteen-sixties some would have ridiculed the installation of an irrigation system, the addition of new back tees at 13 holes, perhaps even mowing as closely as 6mm on the fairways. So if some of this board had it's way it's likely TOC would not have staged an Open past 1970.

I don't understand how some think a new back tee is okay but moving a bunker is not and have defined moving a bunker as no it's sacred.

Adrian:


I don't wish to belabor the point, but you really don't think there is a difference that the course is exactly the same as it always was from the medal tees in scenario (a) , and forever changed in scenario (b) ?


It is still a great course regardless of the changes, but the changes made zero difference to this championship as near as I could tell.  So why make them, other than to show who's in charge?

Tom : I think there was/has been a big over-reaction to the changes of 2 years ago. Very little was really done, the redundant bunkers at 2 moved to a still redundant position (probably I agree what was the point) No one seems to say that adding the bunker at 9 was bad, that seems to have been accepted. 11th green to get more pins is for normal play, I would say essential, same with the hollow at 7. As you said the bunker changes did nothing really. If I was King I would not have made the bunker changes, 7th and 11th yes. I don't think its sacred that nothing can be touched though the course has needed to move on in the last 50 years. It is that good that very little has been needed.

[David_Tepper]

"It seems Mr Dawson has a desire to have his name attached to the course."

Sean W. -

Based on the number of times I have heard Mr. Dawson be interviewed, I find that very hard to believe.

DT