[Matthew Mollica]

Do prospective clients ask for draft route plans, or some degree of work from you when assessing you and your firm when finalising design of a new course?


If so, how do you feel about that?



To what extend do you comply, and what requirements do you have of them in the early stages of a tender / application process ?


I'm keen to learn of the process preceding appointment of an architect to a new course project. Any answers greatly appreciated gentlemen.


MM

[Jeff_Brauer]

Matthew,

It's all over the board.  Some clients do, and many architects comply willingly.  I might, if it was a truly great project, but usually those kinds of clients don't ask for the freebies, its the ones just scraping by.

What I try to do is negotiate a break even type routing plan, usually sub $5K and then credit that to any final fee.  I tell them that if I did 10 of these free to get one job, I would have to add $50K to my fee, so they end up paying somewhere in the long run.  Sometimes they buy it.

The realities of the world really never change.  The types of clients who would ask for free work won't stop once you get the project commission.  But, so many architects struggle to get work, that it happens.  And, most of us aren't very profitable as a result!

[Adrian_Stiff]

Same answer as Jeff. Sometimes.

Twice I did a routing plan for free it was used by the other architect they picked.

I think its best avoided as a zero.

I also think a lot of people/clients think they can build the course from the routing plan, I had one that paid for the routing plan and he built if from there.

[Lester George]

Early on I think we all did it to show our stuff and get in the door.  Like Jeff said, the ones who want it for free will go with the architect who will continue to do free work and negotiate there fee.  I rarely give away routings any more.  I will try to negotiate in advance something that at least covers my table time.  More often than not, I don't do it anymore because people want to steal your ideas.  It has happened to all of us that have ANY experience.

Lester

[Tom_Doak]

It seems like potential clients want to turn the interview process into a competition [where everyone submits work for free] more and more these days ... a sure sign that it's a buyer's market.


I'm not so worried about another architect stealing my ideas, because most are so sure their own designs are superior.  What worries me is that few clients can read a topo map, so they have no idea what they are looking at, other than a pretty picture and a sales pitch.  So why do all that work when they may not even understand it?


The last "competition" I was in [not Sand Valley], which I lost, too, I had developed a good relationship with the client, so when he informed me I'd finished second, I asked him about the process.  He said that they were really trying to decide between two firms all along, and he was shocked and somewhat embarrassed at the amount of work other firms had done, to try and get a job they really had no chance of getting.

[paul cowley]

Truly talented designers design all the time, regardless of job prospects. Retrievers retrieve...herders herd...its in their DNA.


Personally I don't mind doing a 'freebie' to help a client contrast what is not there in comparison to what could be. It's much more rewarding than doing crossword puzzles in solitude....and it's good design exercise.

[Randy Thompson]

I never have, it just seems not to be logical 99.9% of the time. Its not much different then paying for your own airfare to see a potential project. Projects that start off bad usually will finish worst. It would be different if they said, "we have contracted Tom Doak to make the final determination and he will review all plans and tell us which he thinks is the best". At least in this case, someone will be making the decisión that understands more then I do, and most likely TD will able to identify the superior routing because he has clear what goes into a quality routing and therefore will be able to identify, who has captured and maximized the potential of the site, via the proposed routings. That to me is so much more logical, then a committee or an individual making the decisión that has five percent of my knowledge and understanding of what goes into a quality routing and like tom says, can´t even read a topo map. I think its a waste of time and I feel strongly about my position but I am also bankrupt, so WTF do I know!

[Randy Thompson]

The last "competition" I was in [not Sand Valley], which I lost, too, I had developed a good relationship with the client, so when he informed me I'd finished second, I asked him about the process.  He said that they were really trying to decide between two firms all along, and he was shocked and somewhat embarrassed at the amount of work other firms had done, to try and get a job they really had no chance of getting.

I could make a good educated guess what that project was but if I am right you couldn´t tell me for another year that I am right but if I am not correct, you could tell me now, wrong!

[Ian Andrew]

You spend a large amount of money chasing work. The more successful you become, the more you spend to continue down that path. It's not hard to figure out why so many Golden Age architects went bankrupt.


If your not wildly successful, you must out compete other architects to steal away the jobs that are not intended for you.



People tend to put down a regional architect, but I really don't think they understand the cost and time required to increase your presence outside of where you live. My constant question is how much more time and money do I want to invest.

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