Which Architect's Top 5 Courses have the most variety?

[Jeff_Lewis]

In a discussion with a friend yesterday, we were considering Herbert Fowler for the Rodney Dangerfield award, as his top 5 courses are really quite remarkable and quite different from each other. Perhaps the answer to this question will lead us to the best architect. A criticism that is often levied at the modern architects is that their courses have a degree of sameness. Isn't the ability to create different types of courses in different environments a litmus test for being a great architect?

For example Fowler:

Cruden Bay
Walton Heath (Old)
The Berkshire (Red)
Eastward Ho!
Saunton

That wouldn't be a bad group to restrict oneself to. Plenty of variety.

[NAF]

Jeff,

I was just remarking how great Herb Fowler courses are when I was over in the UK. Everyone I have played is excellent and you can add Southerndown to that list as well.

How about James Braid though for this:

Carnoustie
Gleneagles
St. Enodoc
Pennard
Rosemount
or
Southport and Ainsdale
Hankley Common

and that still doesnt touch the places he did restorative work

[GeoffreyC]

Tillinghast

Newport
Winged Foot
SFGC
QR
Baltusrol


MacKenzie

Cypress
Royal Melborne
Crystal DOwns
Pasatiempo
Alwoodley


Coore and Crenshaw

Sand Hills
Friars Head
Talking Stick
Hidden Creek
Chechessee Creek

[wsmorrison]

Jeff, I'm not sure if you mean 5 courses that each demonstrate variety within the course itself or, as I interpreted, 5 courses that together demonstrate a variety of architectural styles.  

By far, I know William Flynn the best, so here is a list of 5 courses showing his abilities on a variety of sites:

Shinnecock Hills
Boca Raton South
Huntingdon Valley
Eagles Mere New Course
The Cascades

Flynn is best known for his parkland style courses, and I chose HVCC as an outstanding representative of this style. Flynn's work at Shinnecock presents a hybrid approach that is not entirely links style.  I chose the NLE Boca Raton South for a seaside style course.  The Cascades is an engineering marvel that looks natural in its mountain setting.  Within this one course, Flynn's design variety is evidenced in the different approaches he used for the hill sections and the flat sections.   Eagles Mere New (1925) is a minimalist design that shows his ability to brilliantly rout under extremely demanding topographic challenges on a mountainous site.  

The use and look of hazards varied with the type of site he was working on.   Far from a homogeneous body of work, the entire Flynn portfolio is varied and strong.  

[Jeff_Lewis]

WSM, as usual, I was not clear in my verbiage.
I meant between courses, not between holes on the same courses.

Dr. Childs, of the lists you gave, which one do you think meets the test?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Geoffrey,

For variety reasons (the topic), I'd substitute Bethpage (Black) for either QR or Baltusrol, and then for real variety (in location/setting, especially), substitute the course that the Tillie Society's annual meeting/golf-fest is playing at as we type, Shawnee CC.

[wsmorrison]

No problems, Jeff.  It turns out I did understand the question after all.

[John Nixon]

Not to sound too much like an attorney, but "top 5" courses as determined by __________?

[ForkaB]

I thought Pete Dye nailed this in his interview on this site.

Raynor.

[GeoffreyC]

Scott - agreed- how could I forget Bethpage  

Jeff- tough to answer that one. Each of the three has so much variety in sites and styles but if forced to do so I might just pick Coore and Crenshaw.  The differences between those courses is striking.  The only commonality would be stretegic merit, natural use of the land and inherent beauty of the final products.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Nixer, yours or whomever is answering the question.

Scott, Bethpage is clearly different, but of course there was a co-designer Mr. Burbeck! Perhaps one of the greatest indicators of Tillie's ability to adapt to differences in his terrain is the remarkable difference between and among Quaker, Winged Foot and Fenway, the first two being side by side and the third not more than a couple of miles away. One could easily play WF and QR and not know they were designed by the same person at almost the same time.

Rich, it is fairly amazing that one could ascribe the ability to infuse his projects with variety to Seth Raynor when you consider that he kept building the same style holes over and over. Yet, in many ways, he absolutely did.

[Jeff_Lewis]

How about Harry Colt?

Pine Valley
Muirfield
Sunningdale New
Milwaukee
Portrush

Does aybody show more versatility than this guy?

[T_MacWood]

Shouldn't the unique design of ANGC (or Bayside and Jockey) be included to show MacKenzie's versatility? Lahinch?

What about Brook Hollow with Tillie?

Milwaukee should be given to Alison. You could substitute Toronto or Hamilton. Alison has Timber Point, Hirono, Kawana and I believe he was involved with some Continental links.

What about LACC for Fowler?

Ross showed great versatility....as did Willie Park.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Tom, you make a good point. I may not have framed the question properly. Perhaps it should have been who shows more versatility within their overall portfolio of work? Forgive my ignorance, but I didn't know that Fowler was involved at Los Angeles. What was his input?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jeff,

Both LACC courses were Herbert Fowler layouts whose construction was overseen by one Captain George C. Thomas. It was later on that LACC North and South made many changes in the late 1920's once again by Thomas, that made them just as much his courses as Fowler's.

Last time I was there, while on hole #5, I came across some old bunker carcasses way out of line of the current hole blocked out by many mature trees. (one of the strongest holes at LACC.) Even our host had never seen the bunkers there before, and it was quite an exciting find!

The hole looked liked it dog-legged right and then up the hill, completely away from the current day version. It was later after a conversation with that tryant and enemy of golf, Geoff Shackelford, who explained to me that it was part of the original Fowler course.

[JNC Lyon]

I believe Perry Maxwell had a little variety in his work. Here are his top 5:
                      Prairie Dunes
                      Southern Hills
                      Crystal Downs
                      Old Town
                      Dornick Hills

[T_MacWood]

Thomas redesigned 10, 15, 16, 17 and 18 at LACC-North. He also built some new tees, including 5 and 6. I'm not sure what Thomas did to the South. I was under the impression he planned to make changes, but was unable (I think he died). For some reason Fowler's involvement at LACC has been under publicized.