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Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« on: July 02, 2015, 02:55:46 PM »
Top venues?

Kapalua
Sea Island
Riviera
Pebble Beach
Old White

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 03:22:37 PM »
Judged how?
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Sam Morrow

Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2015, 03:29:05 PM »
Colonial?
Harbour Town?
Muirfield Village?

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015, 03:33:55 PM »
Judged how?

That I'd like to play regularly. 

It looks like a lot of fun, good setting, reasonable width, interesting greens.  Seems to have retained a decent amount of CBM and shouldn't beat up most players tee to green.

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2015, 03:42:03 PM »
Has the course been toughened up so the pros do not shoot any more 59's?
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 03:49:52 PM »
With half the field in the clubhouse, there are 7 scores of 65 or better, so it seems they are content to allow good golfers to shoot low scores.  A practice I'm fine with at a tour course.

Brent Hutto

Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 03:51:32 PM »
We ought to start a poll.

What PGA Tour yearly venue would you personally like to play once a year?

Augusta National excluded for not being a "PGA Tour" venue per se.

I choose Riviera (but I suspect Pebble will be a more popular choice).

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 03:54:13 PM »
We ought to start a poll.

What PGA Tour yearly venue would you personally like to play once a year?

Augusta National excluded for not being a "PGA Tour" venue per se.

I choose Riviera (but I suspect Pebble will be a more popular choice).

The Greenbrier looks like a fun destination for a short trip.  For those that have been, is it safe to assume that Jack Nicklaus completely ruined any Seth Raynor from the Greenbrier course? 

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 04:02:09 PM »
We ought to start a poll.

What PGA Tour yearly venue would you personally like to play once a year?

Augusta National excluded for not being a "PGA Tour" venue per se.

I choose Riviera (but I suspect Pebble will be a more popular choice).

The Greenbrier looks like a fun destination for a short trip.  For those that have been, is it safe to assume that Jack Nicklaus completely ruined any Seth Raynor from the Greenbrier course?

I love the Old White. It's an extremely fun place to play, and you're right - it's a great place for a quick trip. On the downside - damn, it's expensive.

And yes - there is no Raynor left in the Greenbrier course.
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Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 04:04:06 PM »
Tiger shot a 66 and I'm pretty sure he's a 3.2 handicap right now, so I'm gonna say it hasn't been toughened up.
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Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 04:32:07 PM »
Old White is a hoot. The other two resort courses--Greenbrier and Meadow Valleys--are mostly forgettable, but pretty uniformly well maintained. The Greenbrier course has a few good holes: uphill, short par-5 third to a tiny green; neat uphill drivable par-4 14th, semi-Biarritz green on the long par-4 15th. The 10th and 11th have a tranquil setting, both playing over one of the clearest streams I've seen anywhere.


But yeah, the Old White is the one to play there. Keep in mind that the Homestead and it's wonderful Cascades course are a hair under an hour away.


I'll continue to plug TPC River Highlands as the most underrated Tour course, if not the best. It truly does not favor one type of player over another, as evidenced by recent winners Ken Duke and Bubba Watson, who could not be more different. The course has excellent variety (15 gets the press as a short par 4, but #2 is a terrific drive-and-pitch hole in its own right) and has had chipping areas as a main defense for the greens since before it became fashionable elsewhere on the Tour's regular stops. Only 6,800 yards, but pros rarely eat it up. I'd be happy to play it everyday.
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Jeff Bergeron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015, 07:40:49 PM »
Has the course been toughened up so the pros do not shoot any more 59's?


I could sit and watch the play on this course all day, Actually I did this afternoon. I don't care what they shoot, the golf course is beautiful and brilliantly restored. Someone mentioned Jack but I'm sure he wasn't involved. Thank god! I love the bunkering and what an awesome Redan.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 07:45:19 PM »


I could sit and watch the play on this course all day, Actually I did this afternoon. I don't care what they shoot, the golf course is beautiful and brilliantly restored. Someone mentioned Jack but I'm sure he wasn't involved. Thank god! I love the bunkering and what an awesome Redan.


Well said, I really enjoy watching this event. 

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2015, 07:58:48 PM »
Has the course been toughened up so the pros do not shoot any more 59's?

I've played old white three times post-restoration and love it. It would be a terrific home course.

The comments about Jack relate to a different course there that I thought was pretty lame.

I will also admit to enjoying the private Fazio course there -- typical Fazio but still enjoyable   


I could sit and watch the play on this course all day, Actually I did this afternoon. I don't care what they shoot, the golf course is beautiful and brilliantly restored. Someone mentioned Jack but I'm sure he wasn't involved. Thank god! I love the bunkering and what an awesome Redan.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2015, 08:03:19 PM »
I think Sedgefield is the course on tour I'd most like to play. Greenbrier is also up there, along with Riviera.

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2015, 08:07:45 PM »
Paging Lester George...

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2015, 08:34:25 PM »
We ought to start a poll.

What PGA Tour yearly venue would you personally like to play once a year?


I am another Riviera man.  Let me have the tour tee on 10.  I would just get left and leave a gap wedge.  But if the pin is in the sunday spot I would drive it left and hope for the best.  The first tee is terrifying.  And walking up 18 would wake so many memories.
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2015, 11:00:07 PM »
Hands down 'The Riv' to my liking. 
I am intrigued by Quail Hollow, but never saw it personally.  It may make my top 5 wish list of tour stops, along with Muirfield Village.  Of course Pebble would be in the top 5.  I'd also be interested to see TPC Boston for consideration.
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BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2015, 04:12:24 PM »
I don't understand the earlier comments that there is little or even no Raynor left in the Old White? I'm far from an expert on Raynor, but the course certain seems to display plenty of traits of a "MacRaynor."  So what am I missing?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2015, 05:06:53 PM »
I don't understand the earlier comments that there is little or even no Raynor left in the Old White? I'm far from an expert on Raynor, but the course certain seems to display plenty of traits of a "MacRaynor."  So what am I missing?


Brian:


Pretty sure that the comments were related to the other GB course done by Raynor, not The Old White.


Sven
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2015, 05:47:41 PM »
No love for Harbor Town?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2015, 08:38:15 PM »
Old White presents a most enjoyable challenge.


It's a terrific golf course, one you'd enjoy playing it very day.


My only criticism was that it was a little too wet


At F&F it's got to be even better

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2015, 09:52:58 PM »
Old White presents a most enjoyable challenge.


It's a terrific golf course, one you'd enjoy playing it very day.


My only criticism was that it was a little too wet


At F&F it's got to be even better


I think it rained a bunch going in. 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2015, 10:21:18 PM »
Old White presents a most enjoyable challenge.


It's a terrific golf course, one you'd enjoy playing it very day.


My only criticism was that it was a little too wet


At F&F it's got to be even better


I think it rained a bunch going in.

Bill,
 
Not when I played it.

Jamey Bryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Old White the best regular tour venue?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2015, 04:38:05 PM »
There have been several questions posed in this thread that Lester could best address.  He's busy (I assume at the tournament) right now, but asked that I post these links to articles which detail a great deal about the restoration process, methods, and philosophy.  I thoroughly enjoyed both articles and highly recommend both.  Personally, having played Old White both pre and post restoration, think it was done masterfully. 

Golf Course Architecture Article
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6K6tVtDX1A8bDNMSGZpaUN5T1gySXZjU2NVMWk1ckJfR2k0/view?usp=sharing

Greenbrier Magazine Article
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6K6tVtDX1A8aHhucDhhZ0lLREU/view?usp=sharing

Hopefully I have all the settings correct so that these are accessible......

Jamey

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