Colt or Alison work in Michigan ?

[mark chalfant]

I think  Colt and  Alison  worked on the  CC of Detroit in

Grosse Pointe Farms.

Did they design anything else in  the state  ?

If so,   are these  layouts  intact. ?


thanks very much.

[David Wigler]

Mark,

Colt/Alison is like Lennon/McCartney.  They shared design credit on everything but (At least in the US) rarely worked together.  Alison had an office in Detroit to run his US practice.  He designed both Orchard Lake Country Club and Plum Hollow Country Club in Michigan.  In addition, he designed courses like Milwaukee CC, Briarwood, Knollwood, etc.  Orchard Lake and Plum are both still very much his work, although both have added numerous trees and replaced his bunkers with ones that are much more player friendly (Not a good thing).

[TEPaul]

From those Colt/Alison experts out there--I'd like to know Colt's whereabouts in the United States at particular times. There's no question at all that Alison was all over the USA for quite an extended time and there's tons of documentation out there to prove that--particularly at PVGC but as far as I can tell Colt was at PVGC in May/June 1913 and I can't see that he ever returned again to the USA. If someone could prove otherwise--I'd like to know about it. Proof though, not just opinion.

[David Wigler]

Tom,

I am with you.  That is why I used the Lennon/McCartney analogy.  Given that fax machines and scanners did not exist, it is IMO fair to say that almost all of the US work described as Colt/Alison is really Alison (Who had Colt as his mentor and teacher).

[T_MacWood]

Colt designed CC of Detroit in the early teens. After a tour of the USA Harry Vardon said it was the best course in the country (Behr questioned that assessment).

In the 20's Alison designed a new course. From what I understand the Colt course was closer to Lake St.Clair and for some reason the club needed to move to a new site further inland.

Unfortunately RTJ modernized the course (in the 50's?)--Oakland Hills-ed. I believe RTJ-Jr made changes recently. The basic Alison course is still there, but the stylized bunkering is Trent Jones.

One of the great clubhouses--my guess would be Albert Kahn.

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood:

But do you know if Colt ever returned to the USA after his visit to PVGC in 1913?

You also said;

"After a tour of the USA Harry Vardon said it was the best course in the country (Behr questioned that assessment)."

More should be known about this on-going debate and critical analyses between the likes of Behr and Tillinghast (all in writing) and between the burgeoning early American designers and the English/Scottish contingent such as Colt, Alison and JH Taylor. Certainly the idea and use of Taylor's "alpinization" ideas came and went quickly! Even Flynn seems to have gotten into the dialogue later against the Scottish architects and their ideas about never using trees in design. And the whole Hugh/Alan Wilson/Piper & Oakley agronomic situation of that time is something that's very telling!

The Americans were beginning to use words like "scientific design" and claim that the time had come for them to stop sitting at the knees of the European contingent and go on to do even more advanced things in architecture.

That's a separation, clearly leading to an evolution in architecture, certainly a style of uniquely American architecture that should be better highlighted on GOLFCLUBALTAS.com. What better place to do it than here. The ultimate and best architectural expression to me would seem to have been MacKenzie and his later years in California, particularly CPC and the design of ANGC.

Once that's done it's will be more easily seen why things eventually began to diverge between the states and Europe--for better or worse!

[T_MacWood]

Colt made two visits to N.America. The first was around 1911-12 and the second 1913ish.

Vardon made a tour of the USA around 1912-13, and was ultra critical of the state of American golf architecture. The courses were not challenging enough in his opinion.

[Jeff_Mingay]

If I'm not mistaken, Colt's 1911 visit to N. America was princiaplly made to0 layout Toronto GC. This is, perhaps, when he also visited CC of Detroit. Although, I'm not sure.

Coincidentally, his 1913 was instigated by another Canadian commission at Ancaster, Ontario, to design a new course for Hamilton G&CC, where the Canadian Open was played last week.

I know for sure that Colt left Ancaster for Pine Valley. His individual hole drawings for the Hamilton G&CC course, which hang in the clubhouse today, are eerily similar to those in his 'Pine Valley booklet'.

[Eric_Dorsey]

I played Davenport CC, an Allison design in the Quad-Cities.  It was fabulous!  Although it was back in a college tourney, I remember wonderful looks from the tees.  It's been over 10 years now, I wish I could play it again as my fondness for GCA has increased dramatically since.

I liked it more so than Cedar Rapids CC, a Ross design in Cedar Rapids.

[mark chalfant]

Thanks for the replies.

David, the ravines at Plum Hollow sound  neat.....

Whats the  routing and terrain like  at Orchard  Lake ?

Some of your favorite holes at each  layout ?

Thanks.

[Nick_Ficorelli]

Tom McWood:
the course I believe you referred to is Port Huron Golf Club.
Some recently uncovered documentation states  that in 1921, the green chairman at CC of D had the firm of Colt and Alison revamping the course. He was approached by the Port Huron people for advice regarding new land that was acquired to replace some waterfront land that held 3 existing holes.
"They were able to work out a deal whereby Colt and Alison would lay out a new 18 hole course for an extremely reasonable fee."

[T_MacWood]

Nick
That's the first I've heard of the Port Huron GC. The date sounds about right. Did they (PHGC) take over the old CC of Detroit course when the club moved? Isn't Port Huron quite a ways from Grosse Pointe?

[Nick_Ficorelli]

  Tom:
port huron was orignally built in 1912 and had a clubhouse well as a beach house along with I think 3 holes on Lake Huron.
A fire destroyed the club and beach house in 1919.
Around this time the club lost its lease on the waterfront land and purchased the land that Colt and Alison used in the redesign.
David Savic's Old Course Design did a sensitive rennovation with the intentions of being true the Colt/Alison routing this year.
Its well worth the effort to check it out.The neat feature is a vegitated sand dune that runs thru the center of the property
David used it to flash bunkers around greens that were in the vicinity.
My question is what are the chances the Colt may have actually worked on this site and if there is any record of his return to CC of D in this time frame?

[Nick_Ficorelli]

Port Huron is about 45 miles north of Grosse Pointe.

[T_MacWood]

Nick
I'm confused. It sounds to me that CC of D and Port Huron were two different clubs 45 miles apart. The original Colt CC of D was nearby the current course.

It is very possible that Colt was at Port Huron in 1911 or 1913, although he never listed the course on his resume.

Alison was in the states between 1920 and 1929, so anything in the time frame is possible.

One of Alison's most interesting designs was just outside Detroit--the Colony CC in Algonac, Mi. close to the Canadian border.

[Nick_Ficorelli]

Tom:
Port Huron and CCof D's only connection is the freindship between the  two green commitee chairmen that brought Colt/Alison to Port Huron.I have searched a little
 for the Algonac course that is actually now part of  a protected area  that  was reclaimed as marshland many years ago.
I can find no remnants of a golf course.

[T_MacWood]

Nick
I think all signs of the course are long gone--reclaimed by Mother Nature. A very short lived course built right before the Depression. I ran across a woman who played the course as girl, from her description it was impressive. It had to be an engineering feat, built in the middle of a marshland.