Gary Player on Chambers Bay

[Steve_ Shaffer]

He did not say that CB was the best course of its kind that he's ever seen. He did say that it's'One of the worst golf courses I've ever seen'


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/gary-player-on-chambers-bay---one-of-the-worst-golf-courses-i-ve-ever-seen-195035261.html

[BHoover]

He just can't go away quietly. It's always about him. He also seems to have a track record for controversy.

[Carl Johnson]

Just listened to the entire interview, 16 min. or so long.  I've never been much of a Player fan, but in the interview most of the stuff he says about golf I do agree with.  He gives the reasons why Chambers Bay is the "worst" -- there is some sense to it.  He is not saying it isn't good test of golf for the pros and pro/amateurs.  He's saying it's a waste of money for a public golf course.  Not the kind of course that should be built for the average recreational player.  He mentions the expense that it must be to keep it watered.  Not sure if he knows that for a fact.  Also, much of what he says in the interview has nothing to do with golf.  He knows he's outspoken, and seems to see everything in black and white, and does not apologize for it.  If you haven't listened to the interview, I'd encourage you to do so before responding.

[BJones]

He is dead on with most of what he says, however it gets lost in his rambling.  Roll back the ball!

[BCowan]

Golf Channel interviewed him.  Too funny.  He said Bethpage Black was great and Chambers was the worst.  Also talking about the rolling back off the green as if set up didn't have anything to do with it. 

   He commented on how equipment manufactures need to sell more.   

Fescue fairways don't play their yardage Gary. 

He implied how difficult the course was, Gary Williams said that Chambers had the most players under par in all the US opens.  Then Player said they made it easy.  He then implied the greens contours were too bold. 

[Tom_Doak]

Mr. Player is consistent in stating that great golf courses are fairly narrow and have flattish greens, rewarding shorter, straighter hitters who are not such great putters.  Which just happens to describe how he played the game in his prime.

[Craig Sweet]

A buddy of mine told his round at Chambers Bay was so brutal it was the primary reason why he stopped playing golf...I would describe him as a fairly typical golfer...doesn't play too often and he might shoot any where from a 40 to a 50 when he does play. He said he need vicodin after the round!


As for Mr. Player...he is mostly right....too long...too expensive, and maybe too difficult for a muni.

[Mike_Young]

I don't care for Gary Player and much of his promo but he has some good points in his talk.  In the last few years the entire US Open process has been about the USGA and not the tourney.  The course like CB and Bethpage etc are not really muni courses anymore than a tour player's driver is the same driver you buy in the pro shop.  The entire process is a political agenda and it's getting old.  Imagine if the greens were in normal shape and the leader was 10 under at the halfway point. 

Save GP comments and come back to them in 10 years.  Will CB and the current Pinehurst2 be anything like they are today?  No way....

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:


Why won't Pinehurst #2 be the same in ten years as it is today?

[Brent Hutto]

Mike:


Why won't Pinehurst #2 be the same in ten years as it is today?

Because maintaining the waste areas in the form they were during the U.S. open has to be a continuing expensive PITA. I'd guess it will gradually become either more bunker-ish or more grassy. And because I've met lots of golfers in the #2 target demographic and very, very few of them thought the U.S. Open fairway looked acceptable for a high-$$$ course in the NC Sandhills.


But I'm just guessing of course.

[Tom_Doak]

maintaining the waste areas in the form they were during the U.S. open has to be a continuing expensive PITA. I'd guess it will gradually become either more bunker-ish or more grassy. And because I've met lots of golfers in the #2 target demographic and very, very few of them thought the U.S. Open fairway looked acceptable for a high-$$$ course in the NC Sandhills.



Brent:


I did spend some time with the superintendents at Pinehurst a year and a half ago, and they reported that the spraying and weeding of the native areas, while labor intensive, was about 50% less expensive than watering and maintaining the grass they used to maintain there.


Also, while #2 looked quite splotchy from the TV towers in June, there are six months of the year when it looks perfect [most of the grass dormant] and only a couple of months in the summer when it gets the splotchy look, and those months are not the prime season at the resort.


So, the only place I'll agree with you is that the spoiled American golfers paying $400 per round might force them to do the wrong thing.

[Mike_Young]

Mike:


Why won't Pinehurst #2 be the same in ten years as it is today?

IMHO...

I'm betting the rough areas change to where there is more grass.  The greens etc will probably be the same but it seems to me that so much of the new rough was manufactured in order to meet deadlines and the original roughs had evolved due to lack of irrigation , weed control etc.  If the intent is to constantly spend money on maintaining the present rough as it is today then it may be the same but I don't sense that will happen.  CB will change much more than PH2.
TD, I can say this and you can't, but RTJJr. and others would have never built the style you see at CB if yourself and C&C etc had not made your style popular.  The problem arises when someone tries to copy an art form without really being into it or believing in it ; then trying to emulate it and not really getting it and then stating that maybe this will be their masterpiece.   I would love to know the politics behind him getting that project.  He had to be freaking all week with GH being on the broadcast crew.

[David_Tepper]

"The problem arises when someone tries to copy an art form without really being into it or believing in it ; then trying to emulate it and not really getting it and then stating that maybe this will be their masterpiece.   I would love to know the politics behind him getting that project.  He had to be freaking all week with GH being on the broadcast crew."

Mike Young -

Have you listened to the Shackelford/Clayton podcast with Jay Blasi about the creation of Chambers Bay? I think you will have a different take on the course and how it came to be if you do.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61193.0.html

DT

[Mike_Young]

"The problem arises when someone tries to copy an art form without really being into it or believing in it ; then trying to emulate it and not really getting it and then stating that maybe this will be their masterpiece.   I would love to know the politics behind him getting that project.  He had to be freaking all week with GH being on the broadcast crew."

Mike Young -

Have you listened to the Shackelford/Clayton podcast with Jay Blasi about the creation of Chambers Bay? I think you will have a different take on the course and how it came to be if you do.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61193.0.html

DT

David,
I have not listened to that. I will.   I like Jay and wish him the best.  Have you read Jim Hansen's book? 

[Grant Saunders]

Brent:

I did spend some time with the superintendents at Pinehurst a year and a half ago, and they reported that the spraying and weeding of the native areas, while labor intensive, was about 50% less expensive than watering and maintaining the grass they used to maintain there.

I have seen this same sentiment expressed numerous times. What I don't for the life of me understand is why that existing rough had to be watered. Would simply turning the heads off and letting the rough ebb and flow with the seasons not have been acceptable and possibly saved a few mil in the scheme of things?

[David_Tepper]

"Have you read Jim Hansen's book?"

Mike Y. -

No, I have not. I was in Dornoch last year when Mr. Hansen gave a talk there, which I regret missing. GCA-er Stan Dodd caddied for Mr. Hansen at Dornoch.

Since Mr. Hansen's book is primarily about RT Jones Sr., how much does it have to say about Chambers Bay? 

DT

[Mike_Young]

"Have you read Jim Hansen's book?"

Mike Y. -

No, I have not. I was in Dornoch last year when Mr. Hansen gave a talk there, which I regret missing. GCA-er Stan Dodd caddied for Mr. Hansen at Dornoch.

Since Mr. Hansen's book is primarily about RT Jones Sr., how much does it have to say about Chambers Bay? 

DT

David,
It doesn't really say anything about CB but I think you would find it interesting and informative of how the Jones and USGA etc have worked over the years.  It's a very good book.

[David_Tepper]

Mike -

Thanks. I will try to get hold of a copy of Mr. Hansen's book. As a Cornell grad, I have at least that one thing in common with RT Jones Sr. (and T. Doak and G. Hanse).

DT