[Jason Thurman]

Are they ever a good thing?

[Martin Lehmann]

We have such a hole at our course in The Netherlands. An old fashioned Fred Hawtree design from the 50s. The hole is a short par 4 (330 yards) with quite a narrow fairway and a large oak tree standing bang in the middle of the fairway. It is a fantastic strategic feature, giving players several options: carry it with a driver and being able to reach the green; hitting it low and underneath, leaving a little wedge shot into the green; taking an iron of the tee and hitting a mid iron over the tree onto the green. And the good thing is that after a poor tee shot, there is still an option to shape your second shot around the tree in one way or the other. So it's a real hazard, but not as penalizing as water. It looks great too.  Some weeks ago we had the national PGA championship at our course, and the pros really liked this hole.

[Jeff Bergeron]

Rarely. Sixteen at Desert Forest is an example of a good one.

[Phil McDade]

Jason:

This one works, I think, although I've only played it once. The 14th at Flossmoor CC in suburban Chicago, and a recent renovation of the club made this tree more prominent in terms of how you played the hole -- you can play to the left, right, or take it on. Me and my cruddy game preferred a safe route left of the tree, but my playing partner took it on and carried it (with ease) with a 3-wood. From my Flossmoor thread of a few years ago:

No. 14 (par 4, 366/334/328)
Another option-filled short par 4 significantly reworked by Hearn – from a tee just behind the creek, the player takes aim at a fairway dominated by a large oak tree. Players can go left, right, or over it. Photos of the course prior to the renovation show tree corridors forced the golfer to play left of the large oak tree. The fairway terrain is gathering toward the middle, but a series of fairway bunkers threaten the off-target drive.

[Greg Taylor]

4th hole at Keller GC is a classic example. It's a par 3 160 yds with a tree obscuring the line in.

There's another on the 17th too...

Bunkers in the sky I think I have heard them called on here.

For me, not sure how a drive down the middle of a fairway can be penalised with no reasonable shot to the green.  Logically could be a different arguement for a par 3 I guess. Not a fan!

[Steve Lang]

  Brad Klein liked these...

[Tom_Doak]

I've seen a handful of holes with trees in the middle of the fairway that I thought were great holes.  The first one that comes to mind is at Bulls Bay in Charleston.

However, it is pretty much never a good thing to actually mow the fairway very close to a tree.  You're pretty sure to kill it eventually that way.

[Sean_A]

I can't think of a hole with a tree in the middle of the fairway that wouldn't be at least as good using other features to create the interest.  That said, I can understand where sometimes an archie gets caught between a rock and a hard place and just doesn't want to or can't cut a tree down.  Sometimes a tree is so cool it seems criminal to fell it, but if the archie is that good why has he got himself in the position of  tree in the middle of a fairway...unless of course the fairway is so wide it matters not. 

Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sean,

Have you ever played the Concord in Lake Kiamesha, NY ?

[Jud_T]

Hell, I barely like trees with a fairway in the middle of 'em!   My old club had a semi-strategic tree in the fairway that you had to navigate.  It was felled by lightning one night, and the hole didn't suffer as a result, particularly given that once you navigated the tree there was still water to carry on the approach.  I've yet to see one that I really like.  There's the one at Flossmoor on 13(?), a short 4 that is a bit of a love/hate proposition.  Trees tend to grow over time, so the issues you have with trees on the side of the fairway are often compounded for those in the fairway.  I'm generally not a fan of being in the fairway and having to work the ball around a tree (hello Dunes Club #8 and Green Acres #5 (?))...Seems like the kind of hazard that members grow fond of over the years and better players enjoy the challenge of, but as Sean stated could have usually been done better with other methods.

[J_ Crisham]

I saw one today on 12 at Rich Harvest Farms during the Palmer Cup. 275 yds off the tee in the right center of the fairway on this dogleg left. The hole is named Sneads crotch- I'm thinking the players had other names for it- they basically hammered 3 woods at the tree all day. After playing Butler yesterday I look at Rich Harvest and think how good it could have been given the property and the benevolent owner.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Standing in 14th fairway looking towards the 9th green - shared fairway.
14 is a medium length three shot hole.
The tree effects my shots just enough to think about it.

[Steve Lang]

  Mike,

Looks not unlike the old 5th at OakTree Nat'l.  visual, not really in play to go over

[David_Tepper]

There is a hole early on the back-nine at Stanford U. GC with a tree in the middle of the fairway. At one time I think there were two trees.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Morfantain has a par three with a tree in the Middle. Forget the number.

[Bill Brightly]

Are they ever a good thing?

Yes, on a course you play once per year. 

[Garland Bayley]

I've seen a handful of holes with trees in the middle of the fairway that I thought were great holes.  The first one that comes to mind is at Bulls Bay in Charleston.

However, it is pretty much never a good thing to actually mow the fairway very close to a tree.  You're pretty sure to kill it eventually that way.

How does mowing kill the tree? From my naive viewpoint, it would be nutrients and water being stolen by the grass maintenance, and possibly chemicals applied for the benefit of the grass that would cause problems for the tree.

[Thomas Dai]

Generally fine by me on a very occasional basis, with no lower branches though, and with short grass underneith and positioned not too near the tees. Bunker in the sky, as mentioned earlier. Draws and fades and all that.

The type of tree is important though. Xmas tree conifer style? No way! Tall and thinish or oak like shape would probably be acceptable.

atb

[Adam Lawrence]

English architect Jonathan Gaunt left a big tree in the landing zone of a par five at his Castleknock course outside Dublin. I was playing in the opening event some years ago, and that hole was nominated for the long driving contest. I absolutely killed my tee shot, it took one bounce and cannoned into the tree, rebounding a good fifty or sixty yards backwards, though at least staying in the fairway. I was a bit miffed to find that the long-driving contest was won by a drive that finished a yard short of the tree!

[Jon Wiggett]

I've seen a handful of holes with trees in the middle of the fairway that I thought were great holes.  The first one that comes to mind is at Bulls Bay in Charleston.

However, it is pretty much never a good thing to actually mow the fairway very close to a tree.  You're pretty sure to kill it eventually that way.

How does mowing kill the tree? From my naive viewpoint, it would be nutrients and water being stolen by the grass maintenance, and possibly chemicals applied for the benefit of the grass that would cause problems for the tree.

It is generally compaction killing the fine roots close to the surface.

[Criss Titschinger]

Do trees in the middle of par 3's deserve their own discussion, or can they can lumped into this group?

Technically, this one isn't in a fairway:

Oceanico (Old Course), #4

[Greg Taylor]

They probably deserve a separate discussion as, to use the legalese used in our office, "they are linked but entirely separate".

On a par 3, you have no choice in theory... on a par 4 I'm guessing you could say that player X or Y has not executed well enough and is hence penalised by being stuck behind the given tree.

This is contingent upon there being an alternative shot that can be realistically achieved...

Putting a tree in the middle of a fairway on a par 4 with no alternative route is overly penal IMHO.

[Paul Gray]

I one played a course in France, I believe it was either Anjou or Angers, which had an entire row of trees going ACROSS the fairway. That was, er, different. At the time I was a teenager and trying to keep a round going in monsoon like conditions which clubs so wet just hanging on to them was a challenge. I remember NOT seeing the funny side at the time. 

[Matthew Petersen]

I don't mind it, here and there.

Someone mentioned #16 at Desert Forest, which is an example of a good one. Someone brave can hit a big drive and get a big kick off the downslope of the hill, but but while that's already tight, the big tree in the left of the fairway makes it a very difficult drive. But if you pull it off, you can easily reach the green of the par 5 in two. If you try it and end up too far left, the penalty is not so terrible. You find a way under or around the tree and you should still have a wedge or short iron to reach the green in regulation. If you lay back, the tree provides similar thoughts for your second shot, in terms of going over, under, around, etc.

There was some discussion on the boards recently of a Denver course called Green Valley Ranch that has multiple holes with trees in fairways. #16, which has basically a whole grove plus a creek on the other side, probably doesn't work. There are options for playing the hole, but it's a bit much. The par 5 #2 has two trees.The first is in the right center, at about the end of the driving zone. It's where a big hitter would love to hit his drive. The tree forces that big hitter to challenge the left side, where there is a bunker. If you aren't hitting a huge drive, the tree isn't a huge issue simply based on the alignment of the fairway. Then there's another tree in the fairway some 50 yards or so short of the green. The hole offers enough angles that you can actually play into the green from right or left of the tree without having to go over it. If you are confident in getting the ball airborne, it's also very possible to lay back and hit a full wedge shot right over it. Having both trees there is a bit much, but I think the hole is still quite playable.

[Steve Okula]

Are they ever a good thing?

No. Even if they are well considered and key to the strategy of the hole, by nature trees will do one of two things, either grow or die, and in either case it affects the hole. The ones that I've seen die leave an improved hole, and the ones that grow diminish it.

Trees that were in place before the construction of the golf course nearly always die within a few years, mainly due to a radical change in their root zone from all the water and fertilizer being applied to the grass, or perhaps from a lack of organic matter from decomposing leaves as these will be collected from the fairway.

A tree in he middle of the fairway is a stupid idea, a cheap gimmick, and I've never seen one I liked.

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