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Jud_T

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Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2015, 01:53:08 AM »
Quote from: Ben Sims on June 11, 2015, 11:37:46 PM
Tight, lush ryegrass is awesome. Less than green fine fescue plays awesome.

Actually in my experience, the latter is much more awesome.  If the viewing public wants more connect-the-dots driving range golf we should just buy out the Long-Drive tour rights from those Reebok guys and tack a perfectly flat green running at 15 to the end of the football field.
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Matthew Essig

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Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2015, 02:35:07 PM »
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 02:39:10 PM by Matthew Essig »
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"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2015, 07:08:22 PM »
the course conditions look awesome in the pics

firm and fast, the ball will bounce and roll, controlled shots off of tight lies will produce a fine US Open champion

should be a great week!
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Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2015, 02:35:54 PM »
Another day passes, and the course is even more baked out.

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"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2015, 03:32:51 PM »
Cool to see one of the local guys rocking the Tacoma Rainiers hat.

The course looks great.
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Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2015, 03:49:39 PM »
Bubba's video looks great but there seems to be alot of seeding poa on the greens.  :'(
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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2015, 03:53:21 PM »
I am really hoping the lack of watering around US Open will kill a bunch of poa. It is definitely creeping...
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Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2015, 04:05:17 PM »
The poa seems to be seeding about the same as UK courses about three weeks ago. They've all pretty much stopped now over here but I guess will still be an issue next week at CB. Hopefully a rise in soil temps will put a hold on it. If I was the Super there I'd be grooming the hell out of them now but i'm sure he knows that.

It's a tricky one because a dose of nitrogen will often stop the seeding but then it will also lush them up. The eternal quandary!

Pity because i'm sure in about a month they'd be exeptional.
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2015, 04:11:14 PM »
Quote from: Pete_Pittock on June 10, 2015, 01:52:16 PM
Very little rain in the forecast. No lightning, which may have helped Chambers in the selection process. Low-ish humidity.


My very amateurish opinion has been that between Chambers Bay and Erin Hills, the latter will see more US Opens

Pete, having recently played Erin Hills for the first time, I would agree. It's not a course that is going to alienate half the golf world. It can be made into a stern test, but I don't ever see it being over the top -- whatever the top is.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2015, 04:20:38 PM »
Quote from: Rick Shefchik on June 13, 2015, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: Pete_Pittock on June 10, 2015, 01:52:16 PM
Very little rain in the forecast. No lightning, which may have helped Chambers in the selection process. Low-ish humidity.


My very amateurish opinion has been that between Chambers Bay and Erin Hills, the latter will see more US Opens

Pete, having recently played Erin Hills for the first time, I would agree. It's not a course that is going to alienate half the golf world. It can be made into a stern test, but I don't ever see it being over the top -- whatever the top is.

What's the infrastructure look like at Erin Hills? Looks like farms for 40 miles then Milwaukee. Is Hartford or Hartland big enough to play a role?
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2015, 05:08:10 PM »
Erin Hills actually reminds me of what Hazeltine looked like back in 1970 when there wasn't much development between Minneapolis and Chaska. There will be plenty of room to stage the tournament and park cars, but I'm not sure where everybody's going to stay. You might hear a repeat of that classic line by one of the pros at the '70 Open: "I'd withdraw, but I don't know how to get back to town."
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2015, 05:25:33 PM »
Ben:

Rick's pretty accurate -- as are you; Hartford is a small, two-light town of not quite 15,000 with very little in the way of amenities --I'm not sure there's a decent hotel or restaurant in town. It's one of those small towns that might be considered suburban only because the real suburbs are now just down the road a bit. I'm sure nearly everyone will be staying in downtown/greater Milwaukee proper, and it's a relatively easy shot into Milwaukee once you get to the four-lane highway from the course (which will take about 15 minutes). The on-site amenities at EHills -- clubhouse and lodging -- are quite nice, in my view, but very limited; I'm guessing reserved for FoxSports and some USGA folks alone, with everyone else staying in Milwaukee. (Interestingly, the nearest town is Hartford, but for those of us in the Madison area, you have to go through Hartland to get there.)

CBay looks fantastic -- can't wait for the championship. Hope you and Richard can file some on-course reports.
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Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2015, 10:00:09 PM »
I'm calling it now: the viewers will think the course "looks awful" for this sole reason (even though the greens roll smooth and true).



Additionally, here is a look of 18 looking back, with hay and grandstands in full view. (Once again, media proving they don't know the thirds rule)

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"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2015, 10:26:23 PM »
To play golf in this gravel pit it will cost me $275-$299 PLUS 14.4% tax!   Holy cow...pretty precious fescue.
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Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2015, 12:08:39 AM »
Craig, we get it...you're not going to play golf in a gravel pit...give it a rest
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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2015, 12:21:53 AM »
I just don't get it. A seaside gravel pit is about the most ideal place to build a golf course. It drains well. There is plenty of sand to build with. And you don't have to fight with environmentalists since there is no natural habitat to start with.

There are many things to fault with Chamber Bay. The fact that it was built on a gravel mine is the least of it.

I guess you would rather pay $350 to play faux links where balls plug right next to the pin. Be my guest.

Here are some good feedback from players who actually played this course under tournament condition: http://www.thestate.com/sports/golf/article24142609.html
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Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2015, 01:03:56 AM »
You are probably right about that Matthew, unfortunately.  I am almost interested, however, to see what people like Donald Trump say about how it looks, especially after getting skewered for being an ignorant blowhard for his comments last year during the Open at Pinehurst.

Just to give an example, my buddies and I were looking at a similar picture of the grass while at the airport yesterday.  A Superintendent and a former teaching pro who have good taste in golf aesthetics (by my standards) were discussing whether or not the grass is healthy because they had not seen it looking like that before.  That can't be good. 

For those of you who received the U.S. Open guide from the USGA, I wonder if they shot themselves in the foot with that cover photo showing the fairways and greens looking quite green in contrast to the fescue.  Probably not a good idea to set that expectation unless you are going to deliver the same look championship week. 

And as for the general aesthetics of the gravel pit, I find it difficult to comprehend that anyone who actually goes to Chambers Bay, rather than just looking at pictures, would conclude upon seeing the property that it is ugly.  I found it to be quite breathtaking at first sight, and walking the fairways only reinforced my first impression.
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2015, 11:36:43 AM »
Much of this thread seems to me to a exercise in gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands over nothing.  The only thing that I believe will be a golf US Open audience turn off their TVs, is TV production itself or really lousy weather.  (and lousy weather may not if it doesn't actually curtail play, the course drains and conditions add to the drama)   TV professional broadcasters will and have studied their sight lines and this whole thing of a gravel mine in a PNW coniferous forest green neighborhood will be a non-issue, IMHO.   

The sort of golf fans that will be typical viewers are people that equally watch the other majors and thus are perfectly accustomed to the capricious bounces and whimsy of links conditions at "The Open".  I think they will love to see the same on our soil. 

The course is big enough and intricate enough of a design to require a greatly skilled champion to rise to the top of the heap.  It will help the Euro's who are most used to links golf.  Incidentally, Rory actually doesn't seem to do well on those venues, except for Kiawah.  Congressional was something of an antithesis to the links experience along with his runaways at places like Quail Hollow.  But, the Harringtons and Donaldson's of the Euro golfers might take command. 

Yes, it is a faux links, something like Whistling Straits.   The PGAs and Champions Tour US Senior there went OK, and seemed to favor the Euro players in top 10 finishes if memory serves.  Some guy named Khymer seems to own the firm and fast FW random array of sandy barrens hazards.   DJ, not so much....  ::) 

Perhaps we are more well served waiting and enjoying the toon-a-mint unfold, and do a post mortem after it plays out before we get all down on perceived conditions prior. 

Do we have any info on any of the US Open field of competitors spending a significant period of preparation at any of the Sand Hills NE, CO, even MT venues to accustomize their game to such ground conditions?  If it were me, I'd spend the prior two weeks going from venue to venue in the Sand Hills area, practicing in and on those conditions, whilst enjoying the spectacular evening fire pits and great food and restful ambiance.  It is a no-brainer....  ;D 8)
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Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2015, 12:17:36 PM »
Quote from: RJ_Daley on June 14, 2015, 11:36:43 AM

It will help the Euro's who are most used to links golf. 


I wonder if that is really true.  Starting year 2000, European golfers have only won 4 Open Championships.  Americans have won 8.  Harrington is now ranked 91st in the world... Donald 66th... and both had to go through sectional qualifying to make it to CB.  While anything can happen in golf, I think those two are long shots. 

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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2015, 12:26:33 PM »
Jim, I was speaking of the Scottish golfer, Jamie Donaldson.   But, I take your point.  I don't have the list of previous top 10 or so finishers over last decade(s) on links and I'm sort of guessing and shooting in the dark.  I just suspect that the majority of top finishers are links tested and proved.   ;)
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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2015, 12:33:42 PM »
RJ, this may be a manufactured links, but it is certainly not a faux links like Whistling Straits which looks like links but plays like a target golf course where run-up shots are non-existent.

Chambers Bay looks, and more importantly, PLAYS like a links course. Whistling Straits and Chambers Bay are nothing alike other than looks.

That is what all the fuss is about from the pros. Pros love courses like Whistling Straits where you can go from point A to B purely through air. Chambers does not allow that (especially in this condition), which is why pros are going to hate it.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 12:35:57 PM by Richard Choi »
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Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2015, 01:03:44 PM »
When this thing invariably goes well, Mike Davis, the USGA, and RTJ2 will get a host of accolades. Deservedly so. But these two guys have been out there for a few years, pulling a difficult  turf sward along behind them. They deserve a well-done on getting CB from where it was to where it is. Congrats gents, the entire golfing world is watching the game on your turf this week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pFnjqrmOJZU
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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2015, 01:07:18 PM »
I agree with Richard...absolutely no comparison to the Straits course in terms of how it will play this week

the baked out conditions and a bit of wind are just like Bandon right now...that's where the pros could also get a tune up yet with out the elevation changes of Chambers

another treeless fescue course in the area would be Gamble Sands

hopefully after the championship, the course can settle in and take it's proper path after all the work that has been done

very few divots and ball marks this week LOL

this US Open will not be boring to watch  8) 8)
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Craig Sweet

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Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2015, 02:21:47 PM »
Greg Chambers...Whatever.....It's Disneyland for golfers. I return to "Never-Never Land.. I think the US Open should be played on a REAL links course.....and, personally, I wouldn't pay $300 to play on a phony links course when I can travel the same distance and play the real deal. 

I will be curious to see where Chambers Bay is at with the fescue in another 10 years. Was it the right choice long term, or will they give up on it and scrap it after the Open?
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Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay conditions update
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2015, 02:38:27 PM »
Quote from: Craig Sweet on June 14, 2015, 02:21:47 PM
Greg Chambers...Whatever.....It's Disneyland for golfers. I return to "Never-Never Land.. I think the US Open should be played on a REAL links course.
And those courses would be......?

Shinnecock Hills? Check.
Pebble Beach (maybe a links with a broad definition of such)? Check.
Pinehurst 2 (plays linksy in its current set-up)? Check.
Erin Hills (all fescue, played linksy in the U.S. Am a few years ago)? Check.

What's your real objection here?
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