North Berwick G.C.

[TEPaul]

Played this one about ten days ago. Those last five or so holes are something else--not something anyone would ever dare try to build today, I'm sure, but something every serious student of architecture should carefully analyze.

Those last five holes are remarkable! The "Pit", "Perfection", "Redan", "The Gate", Point Garry-In" and the short little #18. I hit what I thought was a pretty good shot into #16 and it appeared to be well short of the green. When I got up there I realized the pin was in the very back and I sure didn't expect THAT green and all that green space in front and that dip. One of the coolest, most radical green designs I've ever seen--obviously the prototype for the Biarritz green. The green sections and the dip is almost 60 yards long.

Seeing that green alone would've been enough to make my entire trip to the British Isles worthwhile.

[ForkaB]

Bill

You should know that the 16th green isn't really visible (at least notably visible) on the way out.

Tom

I thought the same thing about "Biarritz," and have tried to argue so on this site from time to time, but the party line (e.g. George Bahto) thinks otherwise.

[ForkaB]

Bill

Must have been a huge left-handed slice off the 3rd tee, or maybe you were staying in the Marine Hotel adn just dreamed about it?

I grow old too, but like TEP I try to keep it on the straight and narrow.......

[BCrosby]

I was so amazed by the 16th green that after my round I went back to our hotel in Gullane, got my wife, drove back to N. Berwick, parked by the 18th tee and walked the gravel pathway to show her the green. As the green heaved (hove?) into view, my wife laughed. And then I laughed too.

A terrific green. A wonderful memory.

Bob

[TEPaul]

Not noticing the 16th green on the way out is not unusual at all for me and just adds to the certainty of the fact that it's very hard for me to play golf and really study golf architecture at the same time.

At North Berwick it got a good deal worse than that. On the way out my partner (who'd never been there before either) looked back from the 4th tee and asked me why I thought there were bunkers in the ridge just behind us going back that appeared to have no real architectural meaning. I said I had no idea.

But on arriving at the 15 tee (next to #4) I realized that was the "redan" and the ridge and bunkering in it was the very necessary low to no visibility architectural device that basically blinded the entire safe side and mild "kicker" to the redan green and obviously tricked or encouraged the unsuspecting into going far too close to the "redan" bunker in the front and left of the green.

It was very windy and I told my partner I was going to hit something low with a real draw into that green. When I hit it I thought I'd hit the ball about 40 yards too far right completely missing the green and so did my partner but when we got up there we both had birdie putts to a left pin!!

Amazing stuff really. It was sort of like misreading a putt one way and mishitting it the other way, cancelling each other out and making it!!

[TEPaul]

I was so charged up seeing that 16 green that after finishing the hole I sprinted back to the front and putted another ball from the front to the very back pin (about fifty yards) and hit it real close. The ball went into and out of that dip like a kid on the "Cyclone" at full speed at Coney Island. Coolest thing I ever saw!!

[NAF]

My hotel room at the Marine this past April overlooked the 16th green.  My friend and I went out late one evening with no wind and the sun going down and chipped and putted on the 16th.  Like Tom Paul, I was entranced with the possibilities.  I must admit I thought about calling Geoff Childs right after and saying I've found the basis for the 9th green at Yale but subsequently I think he told me it was not.  The stretch of holes from 13-17 at North Berwick is among the quirkiest and most fun I've had in golf.  The two shots on Perfection are indeed sporty.

One fun tidbit that made #18 a cool ending for me.  I was one down on my match and as anyone can tell you at N.Berwick final hole you risk slicing your teeshot into your own windshield on the car park or one that hits the wall.  Anyway, my friend gets up and hits a 3 wood right down the middle leaving a wee pitch.  I get up with driver and sliced one that landed right on the last bit of turf before one of the cars, hopped over the car, hit the high wall behind the car park and then rehopped over another car and onto the green.  I cannot make this up.

2 putts later I had a three to my friends four and halved.

[THuckaby2]

That is classic, Noel!

You know another cool thing about 18?  The little porch up high outside the bar... It's a great spot to stand with a beer and heckle one's friends as they putt out on 18.  It fits a foursome perfectly.  

I too became re-acquainted with the charms of the West Links at NB in July and oh yes, the stretch of holes from 13-18 is as much fun as golf can provide.  First 12 holes ain't exactly chopped liver also.  I absolutely love this course and don't care if one calls it quirky, sporty, funky, holiday golf, whatever - to me it's just plain great.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

TP,

I am jazzed by your favorable report since the West Links is  the only course I've bothered to book for my solo trip next month.  

I do hope you will favor us with more reports from your trip.

Regards,

Mike

[THuckaby2]

Mike:

I almost certainly don't need to say this, but do make sure you allow time for a beer in the members' bar, upstairs at NB.  It is one of those cool golf experiences not to be missed.  Great pictures in there, but more importantly great people and the little balcony is just too cool to miss.

TH

[Brian Phillips]

Tom P,

You never let me know you were over.  I would have loved to have walked NB with you.  You didn't manage to convince John O to come over as well did you?

I only left Edinburgh on Saturday.

Brian.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I will give Rich another pat on the back for the eagle he made to win our match on 18 in July. I have often thought of Berwick as a notch down St. Andrews. Yet,the holes on the west course are amoung the best in golf period. I also believe the 16th green is certainly in the biarritz family. I too like to put from all parts of it and enjoy the possibilities. I found the 15th Redan puts me in a place to argue that a somewhat level area between the front trap and the green surface is better than the swale which exists on the original. A hidden swale is difficult to play and make luck a stronger component than this great strategic hole deserves.

[THuckaby2]

JB - concur completely about the Redan.  I was disappointed when I saw it my first time, more disappointed this time.  You are right on about that swale...

THE Redan at NGLA is a far superior golf hole.

Still, there is something to be said about being the original, and for this, #15 at NB will always be fun to play.

BTW, I am remiss not to congratulate THE Tigers for their pounding of a Pac-10 patsy last weekend.  VERY impressive.  This could be a very good year....

TH

[TEPaul]

Brian:

I'm sorry to have missed seeing you--I truly am. But the fact was this trip was really world-wind and even a moment apart from the agenda was completely out of my hands--it was very compacted, sort of centering around the Walker Cup and all that happened before it over there with a friend of mine. But I will be back. John O did not come over this time--hopefully next time.

[ForkaB]

John

Thanks for the pat on the back--as I get less respect on this site than anybody save perhaps Barney, it's nice to have a cyber-hug from time to time......

PS--that "Miracle on North Berwick Street" heralded a significant upturn in my golfing performance and fortunes.  Come over and visit any time!

[TEPaul]

NAF said:

"I must admit I thought about calling Geoff Childs right after and saying I've found the basis for the 9th green at Yale but subsequently I think he told me it was not."

If C.B. MacDonald ever saw the 16th green at North Berwick prior to designing and building NGLA and other Biarritzes and their radical dips, and there's every reason to believe he had to have seen the 16th at North Berwick perhaps up to 35-40 years before designing and building biarritzes and NGLA there's no question in my mind that green had to have been the inspiration for those biarritz dips. Of course, that'll probably never be provable but it seems almost totally obvious to me.

He certainly knew all about the biarritz type hole and probably the radical dip idea before doing NGLA and others and only didn't do one at NGLA not because he didn't like the hole but because he said he couldn't really find the place for one at NGLA or in that routing.

The thing that remains so misunderstood about Macdonald's holes and his concepts anyway is they're not just exact copies of holes in Europe, they're ideas he tweaked and combined when he did them---many of the ideas he brought back with him were ultimately combined little concepts from various holes over there.

Does anyone even know if the original "Biarritz" hole in France really did have a radical dip in the middle of it the way Yale's does or a lot of the other Raynor "biarritz" designs do? I'd bet it probably didn't and even if it did, whoever built that Biarritz in France (and the radical dip in it if it even had one) probably originally got the idea from North Berwick's #16 green.

Frankly, I think that #16 green at North Berwick and it's radical dip and two tiers is even neater than any Biarritz I've ever seen because it's not just a straight across radical dip and two in-line similar tiers but it's all built at odd and winding angles.

And it isn't like a regular biarritz where your ball goes into that dip, disappears and flies up the other side and out either. My ball dove into that dip and zoomed left then right and ramped outta there so fast I sorta felt sorry for the little guy! After I picked up my ball after bashing it from one end of that green to the other through that dip and finally next to the hole in the very back, the ball looked at me and said:

"Whatta trying to do to me Paul--give me whip-lash?"  

[TEPaul]

Mike Hendren:

Don't worry at all about these stories of hitting a car or a windshield to the right of #18 at North Berwick or even hitting and killing someone with your ball there. I've never seen this before but when you pay for the day's play another little slip comes with it that's your evidence of insurance if anything untoward happens on #18! The hole is super wide anyway so if you sliced one out into the parking lot you should be very ashamed of yourself.

It's wasn't the parking lot that concerned me about #18 anyway--it was how close the 18th tee is to the 17th green. I couldn't bring myself to hit my approach to the 17th green until the group in front of me had cleared #18 tee because frankly I thought they were standing around on the side of #17 green before proceeding to the 18th tee--until a saw them swinging that is. And when I got to #18 tee I hit it in about a New York second so noone killed me in the group behind with their approach to #17.

More should be said about "the Pit" too--#13. That diagonal stone wall is as close to the green surface as an apron is to a green on a normal hole.

[ForkaB]

Tom

Great call on the "Pit."  If CB was firing on all cylinders when he did his tours of the auld links we would surely have had some copies of this masterpiece in the States.  The second shot to the hole is anything from a flip wedge to a solid 6-iron, depending on the wind, and guess which one is far easier?  Yes, the solid 6 into the teeth of the breeze!

[THuckaby2]

Oh yeah, we all laughed long and hard when they gave us those insurance slips before we started... we weren't laughing as hard when we got to 18 tee, especially since the wind was blowing a little toward those cars!

And great call by one and all re Pit.  What an incredible golf hole that is... likely the best on the course.  I swear it's worth the journey over just to play that hole alone. And Rich is right -that green is FIRM.  You want a full shot into that for sure and god help you if it's down wind.

TH

[Peter_Herreid]

I rate playing with my brother-in-law at North Berwick in June 1998 as one of my top five playing experiences ever.  Not only because of the course, which is obviously a kick in the pants to play, but also because of the surroundings and the ambience.  

We were there on the opening day of the World Cup football tournament, when Scotland was playing defending champion (I think) Brazil in the tournament's opening game.  We had our lunch in the upstairs dining room overlooking the 18th during the pregame ceremonies, and then repaired to the Quarterdeck (?--might be the Quartermaster) pub across the street to watch the game.  While we might have been killed there normally (and certainly would have been if we'd have rooted for Brazil!), judging by the clientele, that day it was like a 2 1/2 hr drinking party with comrades from every walk of life.  Wouldn't have missed it for the world!

Just one of the reasons I try to suggest that folks not overschedule their golf trips to Scotland.  Most of time you'll never remember every shot, or some of the holes, but you'll remember the times in the pubs, chats with locals, shops, distilleries, fishing, whatever equally as fondly, if not more...

There is/was a terrific B & B on the right side of the 17th fairway called the St. James House, that I would highly recommend, if still in business. The proprietors were members at Gullane, I think, and loved to talk and play golf...

Peter

[SWR]

Having played the course in August, I have to agree that it is truly one of the most fun golf courses that can be played...and nobody has mentioned hole#2 which I think is a great par 4 that offers some intimidation on the tee, and strategy to play the hole successfully.

However, I did have a couple disappointments in the course:
1)  The course was green and soft, not playing nearly as firm and fast as past experiences.
2)  On hole #9, they grew the rough up on the left side of the fairway (thick, 4inch rough...not high grass).  It would be the equivalent of taking Hogan's Ally at Carnoustie and putting rough on the left side of the fairway.  The beauty of that hole was risking the OB left to shorten the hole and be able to reach the par 5 in two.

[Mike Hendren]

Tom Paul,

I fear I am notorious when it comes to the pushed fade!  Please advise as to the parking lot surface so I can get in some practice on similar materials in the next few weeks.  

I hope the "this golf course was here when you parked your car" defense is effective.  

Can one sign a waiver of the insurance coverage at NB and save a few coins?

Mike

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, thanks and I did nail a car on the 18th at TOC. I kept the ball since it ended up 20 yards from the green with 1/3 of the ball having a nice new coat of red paint. Rich, You deserve it. It is not everyday one hits a great tee shot which bounces off the club of another player and ends up 2 feet from the hole for an eagle. I really look forward to the next trip over and I hope to have a full 18 this time and maybe even the first round of the day. lol Gullane hill sure seemed higher/steeper than 3 years ago. lol I am glad your golf fortunes have taken a turn up. It must be the good Scotish air and relaxed lifestyle.

[TEPaul]

"Can one sign a waiver of the insurance coverage at NB and save a few coins?"

MikeH:

Look here fella, that kind of thinking isn't even in the vicinity of reasonableness. Even Rich Goodale won't be able to help you or come up with some contrary scenario if you kill somebody on the right of #18 without the insurance they sell you at the starter's hut. Take my advice and buy it because the alternative, although very little talked about these days in East Lothian, remains the gallows for Americans that hit and kill somebody on the right side of that hole. Even with the insurance your best bet depending on the wind if you have that kinda push-fade is NOT to aim even one yard right of the starter's hut on #1 from the 18th tee. There's about 150 yards of room out there where #1 and #18 fairways are melded together. If you get lucky and hit it semi straight you may even be able to play your approach to #18 off the top of the pro shop which is quirkily buried under the low hill-side to such a degree you can't even see it from the 18th tee.

[Mike Leveille]

Wow, all these stories about NB have me chomping at the bit.  I will play there for the first time towards the end of this month.  Playing on the afternoons of Wednesday and Thursday, September 24 & 25.  Flying solo on this trip, so if anyone wants to join me just drop me a note.  Thanks to all those who have posted on this thread for whetting my appetite further.