News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
15th Hole, 246 yards (190 yards), Par 3
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 12:55:41 AM »
Lone Fir


What motivates a man to try to kill an innocent tree?

I can understand the President Eisenhower’s desire to chop down the object of his ire since many of his rounds were ruined by it. Heck, there are numerous trees on other golf courses that I would love to chop down since their existence on the course do nothing but muddle the strategic elements.

But this “lone fir” is purely a decoration. A lone tree saved from clearings by a quirk of planners. A reminder of what surrounds Chambers Bay for miles and miles and miles.

Somehow, someone decided one night that this tree needed to be gone, and in probable drunken stupor, hacked away at the tree with an ax until he got tired and left. He did enough damage to tree before leaving that most thought the tree was beyond saving.

Fortunately, the tree survived with helping hands from several local arborists and now serves as an iconic symbol for the golf course.

Just goes to show, that which does not kill you, only makes you stronger.



US Open Changes

Perhaps it is about time we pass the title of “Marquis de Sod” to Mike Davis. He felt that hitting a downhill 200 yard shot to a tiny, rock hard green was not enough of a challenge for US Open and added a tee 246 yards away from the green (white tee above). The green is not deep enough to hold a shot hit by a long iron from that distance, which means it will only be used if there is a substantive headwind, at which point you will probably need to hit a 3 wood to reach the green. I mean, wow…

Tee Shot


This is perhaps the simplest shot on the course. The green’s internal movements are quite subtle and you are hitting a shot so high (the green is 50 to 100 feet below you) that it is about as point-and-shoot as it gets at Chambers Bay.

The only complexity will come from wind. This is the most exposed tee shot on the course and if there is ANY wind, this is the shot that will feel it more than any other. I have hit a 9 iron from 120 yards away here and watched in amazement as it landed 50 yards short of the green. It is unlikely that US Open will see that kind of wind, but you will need a contingency plan if there is a stiff westerly wind.

The green is not very deep and if the green is rock hard (a likely scenario), you need to be aware of how much bounce you are going to get from various tees. Fortunately, there is a constant left to right slope and little else (you better aim to leave your shot below the hole) so you can go pretty much at the flag as long as you are sure that your tee shot will hold the green.

The front tee (blue tee above) is not only shorter, the attacking angle is more favorable as you are more lined with the green offset.  There is a dune that comes from the right that blocks some of the view of the green, but that is a fair trade for a more direct route to almost all pin positions.

If the tee is set up deep, you may need to aim towards the left side of the green (with a little draw) to take advantage of the side slopes on the left and back of the green (E), no matter where the pin is. Most shots that land on the green towards the side slope should ride it up and down back to the middle of the fairway.

I probably do not need to mention that hitting the pot bunker (F) on the left is not a good idea. It is deep and tiny and your lie and stance will not be ideal. The green also runs away from you at a good clip so any left pin will be impossible to get close from the bunker.


Make sure you have your distance dialed in so that you can barely clear the front lip and have a decent birdie putt up the slope. Landing short is not advised as the front bunker (A) can get tricky as any high shot landing in the face will be buried. The bunker is narrow and long and it can feel claustrophobic.

Missing to the right (C, B) is the easiest miss as the green runs upslope from there and you have the entire length of the green to work with.

Missing to the back (D) will be more difficult as most of the green runs away from you. There is also a mound with long rough that will be impossible to recover from if you hit it on the fly.

Around the Green


If you are anywhere left of the side slope, your focus should be holding the green, not getting it close to the pin. With no spin and green running away from you, it will take all of your talent just to keep in the green. If you are on the short side, you may even need to use the back side board to slow you down a bit.

The lies in the front bunker (A) will be a total crapshoot. There are various grass fingers intruding into the bunker that eliminate most level stance. If the ball hits rough or green and roll in, you will have an uphill lie and should have a good chance to get it close. Anything else may require the use of side boards to keep it on the green.

The right side of the green has some fairway (B) and flat bunkers (C). The shots from here is about as easy as it gets at Chambers Bay. With the upslope, the shot should stop fairly quickly and you have plenty of green to work with. You should feel disappointed if you don’t have a tap in.

The back side (D) is trickier as you may have a blind shot and you are coming down from the high side. You need to barely clear the bunker and let the slope of the green do most of the work for you.

Putting


The green has a constant left to right slope. It is severe around the side slope, then gets flattened out, then gets steeper again. This is a very difficult green to gauge the speed as the constant tilt make it hard to see how severely tilted it is. The ball will roll downhill much more than it looks (but not as bad as it is on 6th). You need to be very delicate with your downhill putts.

There is a subtle ridge about half way down that will boost the speed of the downhill putt when you go across it. Speed control is crucial if you are putting across it. The most difficult pins will be located here on the left side of the green.


There is a subtle plateau at the bottom of the green that will be very difficult to get close. The downhill putt to this spot will be scary as if you do not judge your weight correctly, your putt will roll off the green.

A middle back pin can also be very difficult as there is a plateau where all sides roll away. The side hill putts will break much more than it looks away from the water. There is a couple of subtle rolls here you will have to deal with as well.


However, if you have an uphill putt, they will be mostly straight and can be made. This is a birdie hole, probably the last best chance. You better make the most of it.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2015, 03:24:59 AM »
"Perhaps it is about time we pass the title of “Marquis de Sod” to Mike Davis. He felt that hitting a downhill 200 yard shot to a tiny, rock hard green was not enough of a challenge for US Open and added a tee 246 yards away from the green (white tee above). The green is not deep enough to hold a shot hit by a long iron from that distance, which means it will only be used if there is a substantive headwind, at which point you will probably need to hit a 3 wood to reach the green. I mean, wow…"

Perhaps I've misinterpreted, but as someone who these days regularly has to hit driver or fairway metals or hybrids or the longest long-irons as tee shots on par-3's I find it difficult to concur with the above sentiment. What does the advert say - "These guys are good!". They're playing for an Open, for posterity and for serious cash. Let them play a toughy and find a way to make a decent score. There's always a way. (eg Billy Casper 1959 Winged Foot).

By the way, is that a railway track behind the green? If so is it a busy line or just occasional usage and is it disruptive noise or visually when playing the course?

Interesting threads Richard so thanks for posting them, especially in such detail. You've put in a lot of work. Well done.

atb


David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2015, 04:33:20 AM »
Richard,

Again nice work here. You end with, this is a birdie hole. Do you believe that to be the case for the pros at 200 yds or 246 yds? I can't imagine it being an easy birdie but it might depend on wind and pin placement of course. The green contours are fairly gentle and these guys are pretty decent putters so we shall see.

I guess you just mean, it's an easier birdie hole than what follows. I'm thinking they will play it all the way back half the time. Since they like to keep scoring at US Opens as close to par as possible.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2015, 04:52:45 AM »
Richard,

Again nice work here. You end with, this is a birdie hole. Do you believe that to be the case for the pros at 200 yds or 246 yds? I can't imagine it being an easy birdie but it might depend on wind and pin placement of course. The green contours are fairly gentle and these guys are pretty decent putters so we shall see.

I guess you just mean, it's an easier birdie hole than what follows. I'm thinking they will play it all the way back half the time. Since they like to keep scoring at US Opens as close to par as possible.

Compared to holes previous and to come, not too difficult a hole. It will probably play a tiny bit over par for the week, which for a U.S. Open, is a birdie hole.

I know for certain that it will play at yardages of about 120, 160, and 240 for three days. The other day will probably be about 175 to about 190, or could be from the blue 160 tee again. It depends on weather and how evil Davis is feeling.

"Perhaps it is about time we pass the title of “Marquis de Sod” to Mike Davis. He felt that hitting a downhill 200 yard shot to a tiny, rock hard green was not enough of a challenge for US Open and added a tee 246 yards away from the green (white tee above). The green is not deep enough to hold a shot hit by a long iron from that distance, which means it will only be used if there is a substantive headwind, at which point you will probably need to hit a 3 wood to reach the green. I mean, wow…"

Perhaps I've misinterpreted, but as someone who these days regularly has to hit driver or fairway metals or hybrids or the longest long-irons as tee shots on par-3's I find it difficult to concur with the above sentiment. What does the advert say - "These guys are good!". They're playing for an Open, for posterity and for serious cash. Let them play a toughy and find a way to make a decent score. There's always a way. (eg Billy Casper 1959 Winged Foot).

By the way, is that a railway track behind the green? If so is it a busy line or just occasional usage and is it disruptive noise or visually when playing the course?

Interesting threads Richard so thanks for posting them, especially in such detail. You've put in a lot of work. Well done.

atb

The green is quite shallow and fairly firm. Asking them to hit a long hybrid or metal club could be borderline unfair.

Yes, that is a railroad, and yes it is very much loud and active. I believe there are about 40 trains a day.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 06:33:35 AM »

[/quote]


I know for certain that it will play at yardages of about 120, 160, and 240 for three days. The other day will probably be about 175 to about 190, or could be from the blue 160 tee again. It depends on weather and how evil Davis is feeling.


[/quote]

Matthew, you know for certain they will set it up at 120 yds one day? Honestly, I'd be amazed if that happened. The hole would be far too easy IMO even with a solid wind as the green is just too large to make it much of a challenge for them from that distance.

Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 10:55:32 AM »
I am not expecting USGA to use the 120 yard tee unless the wind is really blowing. I believe the hole will vary from 170 to 250. You can create a ~200 yard tee by using the back tee box of the 4th hole (you can see it on the bottom right corner of the overhead view above).

If the green is as firm as I believe it will be, practically any ball that lands on the green will bounce through it from 250 yards. I don't think that is what USGA wants. We may see it one day, but if they do, they should expect players' blowback.

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 01:09:58 PM »
I am not expecting USGA to use the 120 yard tee unless the wind is really blowing. I believe the hole will vary from 170 to 250. You can create a ~200 yard tee by using the back tee box of the 4th hole (you can see it on the bottom right corner of the overhead view above).

If the green is as firm as I believe it will be, practically any ball that lands on the green will bounce through it from 250 yards. I don't think that is what USGA wants. We may see it one day, but if they do, they should expect players' blowback.

Aww, poor players.

If the wind is still and the hole is ~250 yards with ~100 foot downhill, how many US open participants hit more than 5 iron?

Why not try to make club selection more of an issue?
How many are going to chose to carry a 9 hybrid then?

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 02:21:49 PM »
That is interesting...

Yes, I am expecting them to hit 5-irons without any wind. With that club, you probably have at best about 5 feet area to land.

Carrying a higher carrying club would definitely help.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »
The hole is listed as 123/167/246.

If the yardage is listed, it is more probable than not Davis will find a way to implement the tee. When the hole played its shortest during the Am, I believe the very back right hole location was used. I don't remember exactly how long it played, though. I remember wedges being used.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 04:40:39 PM »
Couple other looks:









However it plays, this hole sure will look pretty on TV.
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 05:00:07 PM »
It is one thing to use a birdie hole for a match play during US Am. It is another to use during US Open. I don't think having the yardage automatically indicates its usage.

The pin position in the back right is very tough one, but with a wedge in hand, it can be attacked.

If there is going to be any 120 yarder (without severe wind), it will be at 17th, not here.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 15th Hole New
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 04:43:15 PM »
The local affiliate's video tour has reached 15.

http://q13fox.com/2015/05/24/u-s-open-hole-by-hole-preview-hole-15-chambers-bay-golf-links/

Interesting to note that as the tee on 9 goes further back, the tee on 15 will move up, and vice versa.

And here is the Gil Hanse tour:

http://www.foxsports.com/golf/usga/video?vid=453488195728
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 11:19:49 PM by Matthew Essig »
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett