When is architectural deception ........ dishonest ?

[Mark Pavy]

Pat, the year is 2015, it was 2015 yesterday and the day before, do you remember?

When you played yesterday, was the hole straight?

[Michael Moore]

The mowing lines on the visible part of this fairway are not over to the right to be deceptive, they are over to the right to go around a bunker in the accepted style of the club.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, the year is 2015, it was 2015 yesterday and the day before, do you remember?

When you played yesterday, was the hole straight?

Mark,

That's the entire gist of this thread you moron.

I guess that Donald Ross didn't know how to design a straight hole versus a dogleg.

Here's the dogleg you claim he designed

Would you identify for us where the dogleg commences ?
Where the fairway line juts out from the right side ?

Thanks

[Patrick_Mucci]

The mowing lines on the visible part of this fairway are not over to the right to be deceptive, they are over to the right to go around a bunker in the accepted style of the club.

Good to see another moron chime in, especially one totally unfamiliar with the play of the hole.

Just yesterday Bill Brightly and the other member of our group were commenting on the idiocy of those who have never played the hole, commenting on how the hole plays.

Really, you can't make this stuff up.

[Steve Burrows]

In spite of the image of Donald Ross’s original drawing, I am finding it difficult to believe that this hole was ever intended to be played straight.  Does anyone know whether the image is supposed to be a pre-construction plan drawing or an as-built drawing?  Either way, I don’t think that one should assume that the a 100 year old image of this nature is a perfect representation of reality.

I have drawn lines from the center of the teeing ground to the center of the green on three separate aerial images from three separate periods in the club’s history.  Ross’s original drawing shows intended fairway widths of +/-60 yards, but the presence of a parallel golf hole and relatively dense tree cover on the right side of the fairway throughout the years suggests that such width was never available. And neither does it really jive with the the ample “bulge” shown on the left side of the fairway in the early aerial photography.  There is a LOT of width shown there that isn’t on Ross’s drawing, wouldn’t you agree?  Maybe “dogleg” isn’t the right word, but the aerial photography from as far back as 80 years ago doesn’t suggest a straight hole.  Rather, it suggests that the left side of the fairway used to play a much larger role in the hole’s strategy.

1931

1957

2013


I am guessing that the bunker seen from the tee on the left side of the fairway was intended to be a much more critical aiming point for players than it is today.  Those that challenged this hazard would be rewarded by having little chance of drifting down the slope into the right rough, among other things.  Tree encroachment and the loss of fairway width on the left side, however, have rendered this option all but impossible.  I am assuming that trees were added over the years on the left side for extra safety considerations towards those on 8 green and 9 tee, but the impact on Hole #2 is significant.  

For me, if there is any issue with this hole at all that, it is not the bulge of rough at the bottom of the slope on the right side of the fairway, but the pronounced loss of width on the left side.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

The loss of width is on the right side.

Look at the 1957 aerial.

The tee shot is intended to go down the middle of the fairway.

A drive hit down the center would remain in the fairway.
Today, that fairway is rough

[Michael Moore]

those who have never played the hole, commenting on how the hole plays.

I may or may not have played this hole, but that is not important because I did not comment on the play of the hole.

Listen and learn. What I said is that the visible part of the fairway points a certain way because it is mowed around a bunker. This would lead a curious person to ask whether we want the modern American tradition of fairway lines that curve around bunkers to dictate what happens beyond these curves.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael,

There is no bunker on the right side, the side where the "bulge" has been introduced.

Ross's schematic has no left side bunker, that was a subsequent add on, as was the bunker on the right which appears in the 1957 aerial.

From the tee, without the "bulge" the drive down the center is both the visual target you're presented and the ideal aiming point

Steve,

The hole plays straight away on the drive.

It does not play as a dogleg

[Bill Brightly]