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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2015, 06:17:54 PM »
So tough to talk about courses that get too much love (or as I read it are over-rated), because they may be good...but since they are, indeed, rated and/or highly regarded...they might be over-rated.  Much easier to say a course is under-appreciated.

I've only played Chicago and Old Mac from that list.  I thought both were fantastic. 

Old Mac is totally my kind of golf and I love it.

Chicago was very good and unique.  Its Redan is a hole I will never forget.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2015, 06:23:44 PM »
So tough to talk about courses that get too much love (or as I read it are over-rated), because they may be good...but since they are, indeed, rated and/or highly regarded...they might be over-rated.  Much easier to say a course is under-appreciated.

I've only played Chicago and Old Mac from that list.  I thought both were fantastic. 

Old Mac is totally my kind of golf and I love it.

Chicago was very good and unique.  Its Redan is a hole I will never forget.



Agree on all accounts Mac! Best Redan I have played!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2015, 07:31:30 PM »
So tough to talk about courses that get too much love (or as I read it are over-rated), because they may be good...but since they are, indeed, rated and/or highly regarded...they might be over-rated.  Much easier to say a course is under-appreciated.

I've only played Chicago and Old Mac from that list.  I thought both were fantastic. 

Old Mac is totally my kind of golf and I love it.

Chicago was very good and unique.  Its Redan is a hole I will never forget.



Agree on all accounts Mac! Best Redan I have played!

I assume both of you guys have played the original Redan at North Berwick.   I've played it five times and was blown away from the first visit.   I saw Chicago in the 2005 Walker Cup and yes, it's really cool, but North Berwick it's not. 

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2015, 09:11:22 PM »
That list is beyond stupid.

How so?  If I were to pick a list of 10 courses people on here think get too much love this list would be pretty close to the list.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2015, 10:34:31 AM »
Bill,

Quite frankly, I haven't played any redan that is like The Redan. In fact, Ive discussed it more than once on this site. I'm sure Bill Brightly remembers those discussions, as I think he's particiapted in a few of them.

However, that doesn't mean Chicagos isn't a good/great hole.  Just cause it isn't exactly like a hole on another course isn't a negative...in fact, I'd say it's a positive.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Anthony Fowler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2015, 12:05:34 PM »
Brendan, thanks for posting this. This was meant to be a fun, provocative article, and I think it succeeded. In my view, most of the courses on this list and the corresponding commentary were completely reasonable. Here's my take on the 5 that I have played on this list (plus one more just to ruffle feathers).

The Country Club is certainly overrated and receives too much love. It is a great course with a lot of fun, interesting features, but you could say that same things about less highly regarded courses in MA like Essex, Myopia, and Eastward Ho! The only reason that TCC is regarded in the world's top 50 courses and these others aren't is its history.

Old Mac probably receives not enough love in general but too much love on this site! I disagree with the author's assessments of the quirky elements of the course. I really enjoy the uniqueness and excitement of Old Mac. Ironically, in creating an homage to an architect who copied holes from other courses and tried to build the same course everywhere  ;), Doak and Urbina created one of the most unique courses in the world. Nontheless, I still think it's only the third best course at the resort (behind Pacific and Trails), so I guess Old Mac gets too much love or Trails doesn't get enough.

OFCC and Torrey Pines probably deserve their place on this list. If you compare them to all the other courses that recently hosted U.S. Opens, they probably have fewer great holes, more bland (long slog) holes, and less exciting greens. Of course, Golf Magazine's own rankings reflect that, and both courses are probably rated fairly (top 100 in the U.S. but not the world). The "plodding consistency" line about OFCC had me laughing out loud. The exciting/interesting holes like 3, 11, 12, and 14 are outnumbered by the hard but less interesting holes like 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10, 17, and 18.

Regarding Olympic, I could not possible disagree more. Olympic is not one of those boring long-slog courses that you might confuse with Medinah or Firestone. There is a ton of quirk, strategy, and fun out there. The routing and use of the hillside is genius. There are so many great holes out there and no weak ones. In my view, Olympic is simply one of the greatest courses in the world. Sure, it's hard to score well relative to par, but par is just a number.

I haven't played Chicago Golf, but I was entertained by the author's comments. I suspect that this course is elevated by its history and exclusiveity not unlike The Country Club. In pictures, the course looks really wide, relatively easy, and not noticeably better than many other Raynor courses which are less highly regarded.

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2015, 12:52:37 PM »
I've played 5 of these and for the most part agree--Torrey Pines and OFCC tend to get a lot of love for being relatively straightforward and, in my opinion, a little boring. 

Royal Troon is not very memorable save for one hole, but that one hole is one of the most famous in all of golf. 

But to say that TCC gets too much love though I don't understand.  Is its rating a little inflated because of history?  Sure, maybe.  But its design is definitely worthy.  There are some great holes--3 is a really tough, fun/exciting hole, followed by 4 which is one of my favorite short par 4s anywhere.  The small greens put a premium on ball striking.  And let's be fair--only a few holes are taken away from the Main Course to comprise the Composite.

Old Mac might get too much love on this site, but in general, I think it's likely underloved to an extent.  It's one of the most unique courses built in recent years

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2015, 02:28:26 PM »
Surprised not to see Hazeltine on this list.

Maybe in the next edition, after the Ryder Cup.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2015, 03:14:56 PM »
There is absolutely no way Torrey is Top 100 in the U.S. It's not the best even in it's own city.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2015, 05:19:40 PM »
So tough to talk about courses that get too much love (or as I read it are over-rated), because they may be good...but since they are, indeed, rated and/or highly regarded...they might be over-rated.  Much easier to say a course is under-appreciated.

I've only played Chicago and Old Mac from that list.  I thought both were fantastic. 

Old Mac is totally my kind of golf and I love it.

Chicago was very good and unique.  Its Redan is a hole I will never forget.



Agree on all accounts Mac! Best Redan I have played!

I assume both of you guys have played the original Redan at North Berwick.   I've played it five times and was blown away from the first visit.   I saw Chicago in the 2005 Walker Cup and yes, it's really cool, but North Berwick it's not. 

I think we can all agree that N.B.'s is the best, and then have a discussion about which is the second best Redan.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2015, 03:43:34 AM »
Bill, NB's is better than NGLA's? 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2015, 10:50:39 AM »
the author was certainly not afraid to state his opinion.  It was not your garden variety watered down schlock.  Reminded me a bit of the Confidential Guide.

I don't think you can say this when there is no byline for the piece.  [They may have asked several editors to chime in.]  Maybe one of them was David Kidd  :)  [no, I don't really think so]  I suspect they included one of my courses on the list just to show that they don't favor me ... there is a lot of that in golf journalism, which is not the same as stating one's unbiased opinions.

K Rafkin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine "10 Courses That Get Too Much Love"
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2015, 05:16:50 PM »
the author was certainly not afraid to state his opinion.  It was not your garden variety watered down schlock.  Reminded me a bit of the Confidential Guide.

I don't think you can say this when there is no byline for the piece.  [They may have asked several editors to chime in.]  Maybe one of them was David Kidd  :)  [no, I don't really think so]  I suspect they included one of my courses on the list just to show that they don't favor me ... there is a lot of that in golf journalism, which is not the same as stating one's unbiased opinions.

While this all may be true, and golf.com has only included a course of yours in an attempt to appear unbiased please allow me to offer this explanation based on the "articles" (I don't consider Top 10 lists articles....or journalism for that matter) criticism.  If I'm ever going to hit 15 fairways and 18 greens (I don't actually keep track) it's probably going to be on Old Mac.  That being said along with the wind the greens are Old Mac's best defense against scoring (which I'm sure you know better than I).  In the world of golf and golf "journalism" there is a rather large contingent of golfers who care more about their score then they do about having fun.  Although I'm sure they would tell you they have fun playing golf, that's mostly dependent on how they are scoring that day.  On a course where you can go out and hit 18 greens and not really score all that well this type of golfer will find him/her self quite frustrated, and look to blame the negative results on something other then their lack of imagination and understanding of how a course like old Mac.

Long story short...people don't like to 3 putt, and old Mac is full of three puts. 

All this crap about how the greens are so crazy they put a premium on luck rather than skill is just crap.  It's the same crap that the worlds best players are going on about Chambers Bay.  Am I missing something here?  Does the ball land on a green and then teleport onto a downhill lie in a fairway bunker?  Are the green contours constantly moving about like waves in an ocean?  An attack on Old Mac is an attack on fun. 

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