[Kyle Harris]

I wonder who is going to break it to the kids playing little league that they aren't playing baseball.


The good news for players who decide to waive some of the rules is that they are "disqualified" (from what, who knows) and free to play the game how they want to the rest of the round.

Little League does, that's why it's called "Little League Baseball."

Since you mention it, try playing any form of baseball-variant on a Little League field when it is not being used for Little League...

Like the famous old sign, in I think Shea Stadium, once read: "No Pepper Games."

[JMEvensky]

It's been a while,but I don't remember any Little League rules different from MLB--size of the field and number of innings excepted.

[noonan]

Jerry,
With all due respect, I can't imagine why you are struggling to see the course's POV on this; it is a VERY simple issue.  Businesses can't give away budgeted services for free, and patrons shouldn't expect it.

I have a very large Dell computer box full of old golf balls in my garage.  I think you and I would agree that taking the box with me to a driving range and hitting them without paying wouldn't be acceptable.  So really, you are upset because you only wanted to hit 4 balls instead of 400, right?

So where is the dividing line?  And does that line extend to ALL facets of the course operation?  Can you play just one or two extra holes?  Can you bring just a little of your own food and beverage?  If you pay the walking fee is it ok to jump on the back of a cart for just a few of the longer walks on the course?

Either it ALL matters, or none of it does.

I was met by a belligerent, crass old man. Barking a rule at me that has never been there for 35 years. The rule is fine. And the way it should have been handled is: Please buy range balls to use the range next time. We have a new rule"

I am a rules guy and a business man - I get it!

[noonan]

I do not think playing by the rules of golf are as import as playing by the rules set within your game (foursome, 12 guys) however many are in your game that day

[Jud_T]

JM,

They don't use aluminum bats in the show.

[JC Jones]

JM,

They don't use aluminum bats in the show.

Among others.....

http://www.rutherford-ll.info/rules2.htm

[JMEvensky]

JM,

They don't use aluminum bats in the show.

Nor did they when I played Little League--nor high school,nor American Legion (I'm 59).

Which might be to Kyle Harris' point. So many sports have tried to make themselves "easier"--golf,no exception. I completely understand the laissez faire attitude on the golf course--if somebody enjoys playing a certain way,good for them. But I think that attitude has led to some unbroachable divisions among players.We now have classes of golfers--each of whom looks at the others with disdain.

Maybe a lot of golfers have benefited from the laissez faire attitude,but I think Golf has suffered.

[Greg Tallman]

Jerry,
With all due respect, I can't imagine why you are struggling to see the course's POV on this; it is a VERY simple issue.  Businesses can't give away budgeted services for free, and patrons shouldn't expect it.

I have a very large Dell computer box full of old golf balls in my garage.  I think you and I would agree that taking the box with me to a driving range and hitting them without paying wouldn't be acceptable.  So really, you are upset because you only wanted to hit 4 balls instead of 400, right?

So where is the dividing line?  And does that line extend to ALL facets of the course operation?  Can you play just one or two extra holes?  Can you bring just a little of your own food and beverage?  If you pay the walking fee is it ok to jump on the back of a cart for just a few of the longer walks on the course?

Either it ALL matters, or none of it does.

I was met by a belligerent, crass old man. Barking a rule at me that has never been there for 35 years. The rule is fine. And the way it should have been handled is: Please buy range balls to use the range next time. We have a new rule"

I am a rules guy and a business man - I get it!

So you are saying that his improper approach is what led to your decision to ignore the rule and do as you pleased?

Your point about business and customer service is obvious and basic.

Seems both parties could have handled the situation a bit better.

[Kyle Harris]

JM,

They don't use aluminum bats in the show.

Nor did they when I played Little League--nor high school,nor American Legion (I'm 59).

Which might be to Kyle Harris' point. So many sports have tried to make themselves "easier"--golf,no exception. I completely understand the laissez faire attitude on the golf course--if somebody enjoys playing a certain way,good for them. But I think that attitude has led to some unbroachable divisions among players.We now have classes of golfers--each of whom looks at the others with disdain.

Maybe a lot of golfers have benefited from the laissez faire attitude,but I think Golf has suffered.

Precisely.

I play a form of match play of which I am fond where the loser of the hole selects the next tee box to use, it's fun and often times we see a completely different golf course day in and day out.

Participants in golf-like games have almost become mindless automatons. They ask for the mens' tee, or the daily tee when a golf course is set up with 3-5 (or more!) sets for daily play, day in and day out. Instead of finding what works for them amongst what is already set out in front of them they turn to the rules, and in doing so modify the actual game. The average participant, because of this, is distancing themselves more and more from what actually constitutes golf and instead we have dozens of different golf-like games happening.

I suggest that more participants should be encouraged to actually try to play a form of golf within the rules for a period of time instead of just ignoring it.

From an operator standpoint it is much more difficult to effectively please a group of people all rowing in a different direction. When we share the course with others, things go much more smoothly if everyone is at least playing something fairly common and it just so happens the USGA Rules which govern play further that end.

Perhaps my Olympic Weightlifting training for the past three years is starting to cloud me. Perhaps it is the rigid unforgiving nature of the can/can't attitude that is influencing my view of truly self-assessing one's abilities and scaling the challenge to that with a set of standard rules. I can't lift 250# overheard, yet, but I will get there. That doesn't mean I'm going to try to lift 250# overhead every day until I can (because I'll never get there with that method), it means I am going to gradually work my way, within the standards of Olympic Weightlifting, until I do.

Imagine if golf participants had that ethos.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Having trouble siding with you on this one Jerry.

A 'solution' is perhaps buying a single plastic golf wiffle ball.  Knock that around a few times before heading to the first tee.

At last a chance to tell the world that ...

I was unusually early for a Competition round at a GCA favourite course.

So I practiced my putting.

Then a few chips.

Still had 10 mins and no  sign of my playing partners. So I took my "single plastic golf whiffle ball" out of the bag, stepped out side the putting and chipping area and standing 20 yards behind the first tee, hit said ball,  in the opposite direction.  My playing partner, who happened to be the Club Competition Secretary arrived and promptly DQ'd me for practicing on the course!  

Playin' by the rules is a bitch!

[Brent Hutto]

...

[Terry Lavin]

I don't need the range. I hit balls in the shower.

[Jud_T]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIPPsNfwf7g

[Tommy Williamsen]

This issue is not that difficult to understand. It sure doesn't warrant five pages. Like it or not, gentlemen follow rules of whatever club they frequent. If you have questions, talk, call, or email the appropriate person. I can understand how that driving range policy would irritate someone.  Tough. The club has decided how they run things. We play by their rules or go somewhere else.

[Richard Choi]

4 pages............

WTF.

This thread is my new guilty pleasure.

I think the over/under on this thread is 12 pages.

BTW, there are probably as many people who really follow the rules of golf (claim and actual) around here as those who play a round under 4 hours (claim and actual).

[Michael Blake]

It sure doesn't warrant five pages.

It didn't even warrant a thread.

[JC Jones]

4 pages............

WTF.

This thread is my new guilty pleasure.

I think the over/under on this thread is 12 pages.

BTW, there are probably as many people who really follow the rules of golf (claim and actual) around here as those who play a round under 4 hours (claim and actual).

Yes, but how many clip a tri-fold towel on their belt?

[Brent Hutto]

4 pages............

WTF.

This thread is my new guilty pleasure.

I think the over/under on this thread is 12 pages.

BTW, there are probably as many people who really follow the rules of golf (claim and actual) around here as those who play a round under 4 hours (claim and actual).

Yes, but how many clip a tri-fold towel on their belt?

I dunno but if you had a picture of that and the picture included (let's say) a rabbit, a leather Mackenzie bag and had the Friars Head clubhouse as a backdrop you might win a prize on the other thread!

[noonan]

Jerry,
With all due respect, I can't imagine why you are struggling to see the course's POV on this; it is a VERY simple issue.  Businesses can't give away budgeted services for free, and patrons shouldn't expect it.

I have a very large Dell computer box full of old golf balls in my garage.  I think you and I would agree that taking the box with me to a driving range and hitting them without paying wouldn't be acceptable.  So really, you are upset because you only wanted to hit 4 balls instead of 400, right?

So where is the dividing line?  And does that line extend to ALL facets of the course operation?  Can you play just one or two extra holes?  Can you bring just a little of your own food and beverage?  If you pay the walking fee is it ok to jump on the back of a cart for just a few of the longer walks on the course?

Either it ALL matters, or none of it does.

I was met by a belligerent, crass old man. Barking a rule at me that has never been there for 35 years. The rule is fine. And the way it should have been handled is: Please buy range balls to use the range next time. We have a new rule"

I am a rules guy and a business man - I get it!

So you are saying that his improper approach is what led to your decision to ignore the rule and do as you pleased?

Your point about business and customer service is obvious and basic.

Seems both parties could have handled the situation a bit better.

I will agree to that.

Most people respond to someone in the way they are approached.

In retrospect - keeping the range seeded is a fixed cost. Probably not even paid for since it is the pro's and the city takes care of the course. I still think he is being hard to get along with. I am not asking him to change his way of doing business (5 balls for $1). But I am always in a time crunch to play golf it seems. With a business of my own I just do not have the free time. More often than I want it is get there 20 minutes early - buy a pop from them because i do not wish to get thirsty and hit 4 balls and go. I almost never hit practice putts.

I will just find a place where I can do this. As will my friends I play with.

Just the facts.

[Brent Hutto]

I'm asking honestly, Jerry. Does hitting four range balls truly increase your enjoyment of the round as much as you're indicating here?

Not trying to restart an argument, just suggesting that maybe you could consider making a (very, very slight in my opinion) adjustment your accustomed routine rather than restrict yourself to places which will let you use their driving range for free.

Or maybe even think of paying the range ball fee and considering it part of the green fee.

I make these suggestions because I myself am often tempted to "cut off my nose to spite my face" when something annoys me. I've found over time my happiness is maximized by only fighting battles that are worth winning.

[jeffwarne]

Jerry,
With all due respect, I can't imagine why you are struggling to see the course's POV on this; it is a VERY simple issue.  Businesses can't give away budgeted services for free, and patrons shouldn't expect it.

I have a very large Dell computer box full of old golf balls in my garage.  I think you and I would agree that taking the box with me to a driving range and hitting them without paying wouldn't be acceptable.  So really, you are upset because you only wanted to hit 4 balls instead of 400, right?

So where is the dividing line?  And does that line extend to ALL facets of the course operation?  Can you play just one or two extra holes?  Can you bring just a little of your own food and beverage?  If you pay the walking fee is it ok to jump on the back of a cart for just a few of the longer walks on the course?

Either it ALL matters, or none of it does.

I was met by a belligerent, crass old man. Barking a rule at me that has never been there for 35 years. The rule is fine. And the way it should have been handled is: Please buy range balls to use the range next time. We have a new rule"

I am a rules guy and a business man - I get it!

So you are saying that his improper approach is what led to your decision to ignore the rule and do as you pleased?

Your point about business and customer service is obvious and basic.

Seems both parties could have handled the situation a bit better.

I will agree to that.

Most people respond to someone in the way they are approached.

In retrospect - keeping the range seeded is a fixed cost. Probably not even paid for since it is the pro's and the city takes care of the course. I still think he is being hard to get along with. I am not asking him to change his way of doing business (5 balls for $1). But I am always in a time crunch to play golf it seems. With a business of my own I just do not have the free time. More often than I want it is get there 20 minutes early - buy a pop from them because i do not wish to get thirsty and hit 4 balls and go. I almost never hit practice putts.

I will just find a place where I can do this. As will my friends I play with.

Just the facts.

Here's my suggestion.
call the pro at another course and give him your terms.
that means telling him up front you will only play if you can "hit 4 of your old balls onto the range before you play"
Let us know how that goes.

(Sneaking out and doing it until you get caught doesn't count)

I am torn as to which is more bizarre
1.your story?
or
2. posting it here (or anywhere else for that matter)

[MCirba]

After Ran's earnest plea earlier this year this thread is on Page 5? 

[Peter Pallotta]

After Ran's earnest plea earlier this year this thread is on Page 5?  

We just wanted to get 4 or 5 pages in before the real posting starts.

[noonan]

Jerry,
With all due respect, I can't imagine why you are struggling to see the course's POV on this; it is a VERY simple issue.  Businesses can't give away budgeted services for free, and patrons shouldn't expect it.

I have a very large Dell computer box full of old golf balls in my garage.  I think you and I would agree that taking the box with me to a driving range and hitting them without paying wouldn't be acceptable.  So really, you are upset because you only wanted to hit 4 balls instead of 400, right?

So where is the dividing line?  And does that line extend to ALL facets of the course operation?  Can you play just one or two extra holes?  Can you bring just a little of your own food and beverage?  If you pay the walking fee is it ok to jump on the back of a cart for just a few of the longer walks on the course?

Either it ALL matters, or none of it does.

I was met by a belligerent, crass old man. Barking a rule at me that has never been there for 35 years. The rule is fine. And the way it should have been handled is: Please buy range balls to use the range next time. We have a new rule"

I am a rules guy and a business man - I get it!

So you are saying that his improper approach is what led to your decision to ignore the rule and do as you pleased?

Your point about business and customer service is obvious and basic.

Seems both parties could have handled the situation a bit better.

I will agree to that.

Most people respond to someone in the way they are approached.

In retrospect - keeping the range seeded is a fixed cost. Probably not even paid for since it is the pro's and the city takes care of the course. I still think he is being hard to get along with. I am not asking him to change his way of doing business (5 balls for $1). But I am always in a time crunch to play golf it seems. With a business of my own I just do not have the free time. More often than I want it is get there 20 minutes early - buy a pop from them because i do not wish to get thirsty and hit 4 balls and go. I almost never hit practice putts.

I will just find a place where I can do this. As will my friends I play with.

Just the facts.

Here's my suggestion.
call the pro at another course and give him your terms.
that means telling him up front you will only play if you can "hit 4 of your old balls onto the range before you play"
Let us know how that goes.

(Sneaking out and doing it until you get caught doesn't count)

I am torn as to which is more bizarre
1.your story?
or
2. posting it here (or anywhere else for that matter)

Give them my terms? Laughable.

Of the 4 swings I made 3 of them were with a driver. So I took one divot.

The other courses I play are happy to have paying customers who do not bring their coolers with them. There are at least 4 other local courses where I can get a game. And 2 of them have a range with white balls. One of my good friends is the super at one of these. The third has a net to warm up with.

There are too many places to play here locally to worry about some belligerent idiot on a power trip.

This is not the only issue my friends and I have had here. (Of course I know it is us by your judgement.) Last time it was them bitching at my kid and his college roomie for taking a cart out of a line of carts. They started parking carts in front of the clubhouse for convenience. They were approached by another belligerent idiot suggesting they take a different cart. This was the cart lines for years. It is nice they started parking carts close to the clubhouse but it was the stereotypical bitching at a young person on the course for no reason. The last time I played there last year at 7:45 on July 4th weekend we had a 5th person drive past us to join a foursome on 3 tee. They were very slow and we teed off early to play quickly. After 2 holes of painful play we called the clubhouse. They sent out a ranger who said they could play as a fivesome. We were not accepting of this hogwash so a disagreement ensued. Many times we have been jumped on 10 tee with someone starting on the back.

I know it is a muni. But this is the last straw. If my friends had not bought the all you could play pass they would not play there either.

It was the straw that broke the camels back.

[JC Jones]

Jerry, 

How would you feel if I brought goodie bags or juice boxes into your bowling alley?

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