[noonan]

How about this scenario....

Playing a "practice round" on a 9 hole course at 6:30pm on a weekday, as a single, and being behind a SLOW 3 ball.  The guys couldn't hit the ball in the air. 

Since there was nowhere to go (there were slow groups ahead of them and I didn't want to get sandwiched in) I played multiple balls and hit a few extra pitches around the greens.  All divots and ball marks on the green were fixed and replaced and nobody was behind me.

A few holes in I was told that I couldn't hit that many balls and that I could only hit one ball.

Thoughts?

Not good customer service. I say hit away.

[John Kavanaugh]

Be it from a scramble or a guy practicing on the course, cluster divots are the bane of my existence.

[Kyle Harris]

"USGA Rules govern all play except where modified by local rules" is printed on most every score card of which I can think.

That seems fairly straightforward and without question in terms of what you can and should do on a golf course. I'm unaware of any rule/local rule that allows for the playing of multiple balls on a hole, except in the case of a rules ambiguity or around the the previous putting green/tee without unduly causing a delay.

I don't like the idea of apologizing for enforcing a rule, regardless of the context. They have nothing for which to be sorry. Perhaps the statement could start with "Unfortunately, sir..." but under no circumstance should an employee have to apologize for enforcing a rule.

This thread and the other thread by Jason Thurman are very real examples of the state of the game today that the likes of Geoff Shackelford, etc. don't seem to see from their lofty perches. Very few golfers actually play golf anymore, and to be blunt, if you aren't playing by the established rules of golf's governing bodies, you are at best playing a golf-like game.

[Matthew Sander]

Be it from a scramble or a guy practicing on the course, cluster divots are the bane of my existence.

John, don't you mean to say that cluster divots are "A" bane of your existence? If my memory serves me well, there are several, if not many, banes of your existence.

[Peter Pallotta]

Wait a minute -- you guys actually hit balls before you get out for a round?

Wow.  Isn't that tiring? And what about the time - I mean, when do you finish your coffee and donut if you're on the range? 

Also: I've come to the conclusion that I only have a limited number of decent golf shots in me per day, so I'll be damned if I use even one of them hitting warm ups.

Peter

[Andrew Buck]

I think a lot of courses have vastly different practices on many items.  I know several courses that allow (and encourage) public to tee off at dawn prior to the golf shop opening, and pay when the round is over, and many more that would find such a practice as insulting.  I suspect there are some facilities that have no issue with the trade-off of a few additional "range balls" for a paying customer to hit 4 balls off the range, and others that view it as theft.  

If Jerry has dropped a few balls for years, I don't think there is anything egregious about the practice, however, once the policy was stated, he should stop and change his action.  Over the years, I suspect I've actually hit less than than 30% of the range balls I've purchased for pre-round use, so it's not uncommon at all to pay for range balls and only hit a few.

If there is one thing GCA can be counted on, it's to quickly add a degree of shame to any action that lacks sufficient decorum.

[Steve Lang]

  Warm-up / stretching before a round is for the muscles, and you don't need a range for that.. post-round some range time or going to the shag bag is needed to practice what you discovered or failed at... that's what i was taught as a kid..  didn't work out too bad till i came of drinking age.. ..  

[Bill Crane]

Did a Golf Course Architect re - design the range in question?

Perhaps Steven Kaye ??


 Wm Flynnfan

[JC Jones]

Wait a minute -- you guys actually hit balls before you get out for a round?

Wow.  Isn't that tiring? And what about the time - I mean, when do you finish your coffee and donut if you're on the range? 

Also: I've come to the conclusion that I only have a limited number of decent golf shots in me per day, so I'll be damned if I use even one of them hitting warm ups.

Peter

If you were really italian it would be coffee and a cigarette.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jerry,

Download, fill in the blanks, check off the appropriate boxes, sign, and mail*.




*and don't forget the donuts if you go there again. 

[Andrew Buck]

"USGA Rules govern all play except where modified by local rules" is printed on most every score card of which I can think.

That seems fairly straightforward and without question in terms of what you can and should do on a golf course. I'm unaware of any rule/local rule that allows for the playing of multiple balls on a hole, except in the case of a rules ambiguity or around the the previous putting green/tee without unduly causing a delay.

I don't like the idea of apologizing for enforcing a rule, regardless of the context. They have nothing for which to be sorry. Perhaps the statement could start with "Unfortunately, sir..." but under no circumstance should an employee have to apologize for enforcing a rule.

This thread and the other thread by Jason Thurman are very real examples of the state of the game today that the likes of Geoff Shackelford, etc. don't seem to see from their lofty perches. Very few golfers actually play golf anymore, and to be blunt, if you aren't playing by the established rules of golf's governing bodies, you are at best playing a golf-like game.

While every course and club is free to establish the rules they wish, I don't see anything wrong with many patrons playing a "golf-like game", at times as long as they are not causing undue damage to the course, or interfering with others.  Not every club and course needs to be the same.  

If a group wishes to play all lost balls as lateral, it doesn't bother me, and if an individual that isn't holding anyone up and is fixing divots and ballmarks hits two balls, it doesn't bother me either.  I would suggest most golf course operators would also welcome the revenue from such individuals and groups, as long as it doesn't adversely impact others or the conditions.  If an operator or membership wishes to disallow those activities, that is also their prerogative and I think a pleasant warning/discussion would be reasonable for a "first offense".  

[Adam Warren]

It is an interesting thought for a course to offer 5-10 balls for a dollar.  I think in many cases such as the municipal course or some other public courses offering that might actually increase some revenues.  I can hit all the range balls i want at my club, but if i want to hit a couple before going out I will often wander to the range and use a couple from a friends bucket or snag a couple from the front of the tee.  If I grab a bucket and head out there to hit the 4-5 that I normally hit, it leaves an entire bucket almost for someone to hit and they didnt have to pay for it.  That's just not great business.

[Kyle Harris]

"USGA Rules govern all play except where modified by local rules" is printed on most every score card of which I can think.

That seems fairly straightforward and without question in terms of what you can and should do on a golf course. I'm unaware of any rule/local rule that allows for the playing of multiple balls on a hole, except in the case of a rules ambiguity or around the the previous putting green/tee without unduly causing a delay.

I don't like the idea of apologizing for enforcing a rule, regardless of the context. They have nothing for which to be sorry. Perhaps the statement could start with "Unfortunately, sir..." but under no circumstance should an employee have to apologize for enforcing a rule.

This thread and the other thread by Jason Thurman are very real examples of the state of the game today that the likes of Geoff Shackelford, etc. don't seem to see from their lofty perches. Very few golfers actually play golf anymore, and to be blunt, if you aren't playing by the established rules of golf's governing bodies, you are at best playing a golf-like game.

While every course and club is free to establish the rules they wish, I don't see anything wrong with many patrons playing a "golf-like game", at times as long as they are not causing undue damage to the course, or interfering with others.  Not every club and course needs to be the same.  

If a group wishes to play all lost balls as lateral, it doesn't bother me, and if an individual that isn't holding anyone up and is fixing divots and ballmarks hits two balls, it doesn't bother me either.  I would suggest most golf course operators would also welcome the revenue from such individuals and groups, as long as it doesn't adversely impact others or the conditions.  If an operator or membership wishes to disallow those activities, that is also their prerogative and I think a pleasant warning/discussion would be reasonable for a "first offense".  

You're right, there is little harm in your examples.

However, this is almost a sociological conversation because we already accept that customers are going to use a golf course for slightly different purpose than playing golf. We ignore the first line of the card about USGA rules governing all play, and the arbitrarily apply any local rules or traffic to suit our needs instead of showing some self-discipline.

A stricter adherence to the rules would probably push players to the tees for which their skill is more suited. No wonder that often times the most polite, well-behaved, and rules-following golfers are women. If you realize, going in, that you're going to play golf as outlined by the rules, you are far more likely to actually play the course that takes the more punitive aspects of the game out of play.

Instead, let's just change the rule to suit our abilities. Next time I go bowling I'll walk the ball down and kick over the pins I miss.

[Peter Pallotta]

Wait a minute -- you guys actually hit balls before you get out for a round?

Wow.  Isn't that tiring? And what about the time - I mean, when do you finish your coffee and donut if you're on the range? 

Also: I've come to the conclusion that I only have a limited number of decent golf shots in me per day, so I'll be damned if I use even one of them hitting warm ups.

Peter

If you were really italian it would be coffee and a cigarette.

Sadly, it *is* a coffee and cigarette, and then another coffee and two more cigarettes. But I had a moment there when i wrote that post when I felt I shouldn't be encouraging minors or promoting a bad habit.

[JMEvensky]

"USGA Rules govern all play except where modified by local rules" is printed on most every score card of which I can think.

That seems fairly straightforward and without question in terms of what you can and should do on a golf course. I'm unaware of any rule/local rule that allows for the playing of multiple balls on a hole, except in the case of a rules ambiguity or around the the previous putting green/tee without unduly causing a delay.

I don't like the idea of apologizing for enforcing a rule, regardless of the context. They have nothing for which to be sorry. Perhaps the statement could start with "Unfortunately, sir..." but under no circumstance should an employee have to apologize for enforcing a rule.

This thread and the other thread by Jason Thurman are very real examples of the state of the game today that the likes of Geoff Shackelford, etc. don't seem to see from their lofty perches. Very few golfers actually play golf anymore, and to be blunt, if you aren't playing by the established rules of golf's governing bodies, you are at best playing a golf-like game.

While every course and club is free to establish the rules they wish, I don't see anything wrong with many patrons playing a "golf-like game", at times as long as they are not causing undue damage to the course, or interfering with others.  Not every club and course needs to be the same.  

If a group wishes to play all lost balls as lateral, it doesn't bother me, and if an individual that isn't holding anyone up and is fixing divots and ballmarks hits two balls, it doesn't bother me either.  I would suggest most golf course operators would also welcome the revenue from such individuals and groups, as long as it doesn't adversely impact others or the conditions.  If an operator or membership wishes to disallow those activities, that is also their prerogative and I think a pleasant warning/discussion would be reasonable for a "first offense".  

You're right, there is little harm in your examples.

However, this is almost a sociological conversation because we already accept that customers are going to use a golf course for slightly different purpose than playing golf. We ignore the first line of the card about USGA rules governing all play, and the arbitrarily apply any local rules or traffic to suit our needs instead of showing some self-discipline.

A stricter adherence to the rules would probably push players to the tees for which their skill is more suited. No wonder that often times the most polite, well-behaved, and rules-following golfers are women. If you realize, going in, that you're going to play golf as outlined by the rules, you are far more likely to actually play the course that takes the more punitive aspects of the game out of play.

Instead, let's just change the rule to suit our abilities. Next time I go bowling I'll walk the ball down and kick over the pins I miss.

+1 for KH

[Brent Hutto]

I don't think adherence to the Rules of Golf has nearly the degree of connection to the choice of what tees to play or what course to play that you guys seem to think it does. People roll the ball to better lies because they've always rolled the ball to better lies, they don't do it when they're in danger of shooting 110 on a brutal 7,200 yard "championship" course and then play it down when they are shooting 85 on a wide-open 6,400 yard "executive" one. Same for gimme putts and fanciful drops.

I will agree that if the only people willing to pony up green fees were stick-up-the-arse Rules sticklers who treat every round like the U.S. Frickin' Open then we might see fewer over-the-top difficult courses with copious OB stakes, water hazards on every hole, bunkers and deep rough pinching in every fairway and guarding every green. Then again, we'd have a lot fewer courses of all types since only at most 5% of golfers are willing to treat the Rules as sacred in a way that would satisfy Kyle's sensibilities.

In a lot of cases people routinely violate many of the Rules of Golf because they believe the game is more enjoyable that way. And unlike some of you lot, I am very loath to declare what is or isn't enjoyable for another person I don't even know.

[astavrides]

It is an interesting thought for a course to offer 5-10 balls for a dollar.  I think in many cases such as the municipal course or some other public courses offering that might actually increase some revenues.  I can hit all the range balls i want at my club, but if i want to hit a couple before going out I will often wander to the range and use a couple from a friends bucket or snag a couple from the front of the tee.  If I grab a bucket and head out there to hit the 4-5 that I normally hit, it leaves an entire bucket almost for someone to hit and they didnt have to pay for it.  That's just not great business.

I agree. Often I just want to hit 5-10 balls. Rancho Park in LA is the only place I can ever remember where you could buy $1 worth of balls from the automatic ball dispenser machine. That was over 10 years ago. Not sure if they still do that.

[Carl Nichols]

It is an interesting thought for a course to offer 5-10 balls for a dollar.  I think in many cases such as the municipal course or some other public courses offering that might actually increase some revenues.  I can hit all the range balls i want at my club, but if i want to hit a couple before going out I will often wander to the range and use a couple from a friends bucket or snag a couple from the front of the tee.  If I grab a bucket and head out there to hit the 4-5 that I normally hit, it leaves an entire bucket almost for someone to hit and they didnt have to pay for it.  That's just not great business.

I agree. Often I just want to hit 5-10 balls. Rancho Park in LA is the only place I can ever remember where you could buy $1 worth of balls from the automatic ball dispenser machine. That was over 10 years ago. Not sure if they still do that.

"How much for an order of ribs. . . . Let me get one. . . . One rib."

[Kyle Harris]

Brent,

I am not suggesting that every golfer needs to genuflect on the putting green with a USGA Rules Book at the ground in front of them prior to teeing off or to hold everything so sacrosanct as such.

What I am suggesting is that very few on the golf course are actually playing golf. I am also suggesting that it is not a stretch to conceive that any of the difficulties faced in retaining or bringing people into the game are because of the first suggestion. If Golf (big G) were prioritized by it's participants moreso than the activities surrounding, the operation as a whole would run much more smoothly.

Rarely do golfers see the total impact of their actions on the course. Playing a second ball from anywhere effectively adds a round for that particular part of the golf course. Rolling a ball out of a divot adds another divot in the same area, effectively doubling recovery time. The impact here is cumulative. A course with 1500 rounds playing a certain set of tees in a month, will have a first tee area that has 2250 rounds played on it if half those people take a "breakfast/lunch/dinner ball."

If adherence to the rules were prioritized, all those subtle cumulative things begin to fade away and everybody wins.

I suggest ultimately, that before criticizing the course/operator/golf architect, one actually tries to play golf.

[JC Jones]

Kyle,

The game of Golf existed prior to the USGA rule book.  To suggest that Golf is only played when one follows the USGA rule book is completely inane.

Furthermore, the rules promulgated in the USGA rule book for purposes of playing tournaments that have adopted the rules in the USGA rule book, were not designed with the intent to reduce wear and tear on the golf course.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

The game of Golf existed prior to the USGA rule book.  To suggest that Golf is only played when one follows the USGA rule book is completely inane.

Furthermore, the rules promulgated in the USGA rule book for purposes of playing tournaments that have adopted the rules in the USGA rule book, were not designed with the intent to reduce wear and tear on the golf course.

Is that scarecrow made of straw working for you?

Of course the USGA/R&A are the result of many people playing golf through the years, but the 500+ year history of golf is exactly how and why the USGA/R&A came to be - so as to organize what constitutes the game.

Furthermore, my point is that for most operators, USGA rules are the rules which govern all play and this is explicitly stated. When you enter a courtroom, you already know the law for whatever jurisdiction over which that courtroom presides. You can't just arbitrarily argue laws from other jurisdictions which happen to fit your needs. If any operator wishes to have other golf-like games (Foot Golf, for example) by all means, have that.

My initial post stated that most scorecards read: "USGA Rules govern all play, except where modified by local rules." Step 1 in the decline is simply ignoring that line to suit your own wants.

[noonan]

If everyone on a course had to play by the rule book at all times - you would find about 80% of all existing courses closed - if not more.

There are some here that are confusing the sport of golf with the recreation/business of golf.

Ultimately golf needs to be fun.

I wonder if Jack Nicklaus would play with any of you purists. 

[Jon Cavalier]

I'm so happy to see here than I'm not the only one who avoids the range like it was church. Brent and Peter, I'm with you boys. 2 years at my current club, never seen the range, never will (but I also have a buddy who hits balls every single day, and another who rates the practice facilities as the single most important feature at a prospective club).

I figure I've got a limited number of swings in my slowly decrepitzing body and fickle back, and I'll be dammed if I piss any of them away on the range.

[Kyle Harris]

Jerry,

There is the underlying principle that I cannot grasp or begin to understand.

Playing by the rules is fun. Playing the ball down and embracing that sporting element is fun. Yes, even for recreational golf. Golf is the only sport of which I can think where the rules are so subject to the personal whims of the individual or small group of individuals that the whole concept of the game elements become meaningless. It's fun to extract a ball from a divot. Sure, your score might be slightly higher but it may ultimately not be higher.

The point is more people need to actually try and stop griping. It's not slower, it's not an ordeal. It is fun.

It is when you expect more than your capability, and need to arbitrarily decide how and when to change or modify the game to suit your shortcoming, that I begin to question the motive in the first place. And I think it is reasonable to expect all participants to do their best to play by the rules, especially when it is explicitly stated as a condition for play.

Furthermore, the rules aren't this strict, hand-cuffing, grind of an ordeal.

Don't want to grind out those meaningless 3 footers for a 7 when playing alone? Okay, use Stableford scoring, which is in the rules. Hate water hazards and forced carries and those ilk? Play a forward tee or from an area where those forced carries are taken away. There is nothing in the rules that say you must play from the same set of tee markers throughout the round.

[Brent Hutto]

Jon,

I avoid the driving range for the same reason I don't obey Rules such as walking across the green to pull the flagstick when playing a solo round. It's because I'm out there to have fun and practice isn't fun.

I'm fortunate in that I pay money to play golf instead of getting paid to play it. So if it's ain't fun, I don't have to do it!

P.S. If I play at a club with a really nice chipping/pitching green I might actually practice chipping once in a while. When I'm in the right mood, a half-hour or so of practice getting up and down from tricky spots can be fun. But not many places have interesting chipping greens like that, guess driving ranges are more popular.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()