Nairn or Cruden Bay

[Julian Wise]

Eight of us are going to Scotland in September--we are playing Royal Dornoch, Castle Stuart and Trump.  We can either play another round at Nairn or Cruden Bay.  Several of the people booking the trip are insisting on playing Trump so we do not have the option of playing Nairn and Cruden Bay instead of Trump.  Thoughts on the better (and more enjoyable) course between Nairn and Cruden Bay? 

[Sean_A]

In a landslide.......

Ciao

[Carl Johnson]

I'll begin . . . CB (having played both).

[ward peyronnin]

Julian

I am a Cruden Bay overseas member. I have not played Nairn. The most common comment one hears regarding Nairn is how good their greens are. The most common comment comment regarding CB is how much damn fun it is to play.

Although I am not a ranking apologist there are reasons CB ranks so much higher than Nairn. Also , if you have time and want to play 27 the St Olaf second course is a cracker of a Harry Colt track. Stay in the Kilmarnock Arms where the food is very good and rooms are nice.

[David_Tepper]

Julian -

This article on Trump Aberdeen and the nearby courses may be of interest:

http://digitalmag.globalgolfpost.com/20150427?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=READ%20MORE%20-%20Trump%20Intl%20Scotland&utm_campaign=Reminder-Tuesday-04-28#&pageSet=19&page=0&contentItem=0

I recommend Cruden Bay over Nairn.

DT

[Niall C]

Although I am not a ranking apologist there are reasons CB ranks so much higher than Nairn. Also , if you have time and want to play 27 the St Olaf second course is a cracker of a Harry Colt track. Stay in the Kilmarnock Arms where the food is very good and rooms are nice.

...and one of the reasons is that most of the rankings are American and most Americans seem to judge links courses by the size of the dunes (think Trump). So if you want to follow the herd, go to Cruden Bay, if not go to Nairn. Either way, two excellent tracks.

Niall

ps. St Olaf was Simpson, not Colt.

[ward peyronnin]

Niall

I was told when I was there last year that St Olaf's was mostly Colt. Verbal only I have not researched

[Julian Wise]

In a landslide.......

Ciao

Should I assume you mean it will be Cruden Bay in a landslide?  It is interesting that of the people I have spoken with and what I have read (before this posting), the majority of the Scots prefer Nairn and those from the States prefer Cruden Bay.  Curious as to the reasons why people prefer one over the other and if it is a clear choice or one of those, "you can't go wrong with either."

[Mark Studer]

Played them both several times. Cruden Bay(some of the best cape hole dunes and surprise shots) dust jacket on the original confidential guide got me to play the first time and would still pick it over Nairn....why not play Nairn the same day(10-15 minutes apart) you play Castle Stuart and play both?  We played Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen the same day on my first visit. Royal Aberdeen would trump Nairn too. all  the best, have fun, Mark

[ward peyronnin]

Niall

I just checked Golf Monthly and you may be right. Nairn comes in at #34 and CB at # 80

[Niall C]

Ward

I'd be interested to hear more from what your contact was saying. I've been doing a bit of research myself into Cruden Bay and from what I've found the St Olafs course was originally part of Simpsons redesign for the main course in 1921/22 but they only kept that routing for a year before going back to using the first few holes and then the discarded holes became the new 9 hole course ie. the St Olaf, replacing the previous 9 hole course that dated back to 1901.

None of that is in the club history book however the book does say that the St Olafs became disused during WWII but was resurrected several years after albeit they had to relay the greens. No mention of Colt but I wonder if he got involved in resurrecting it ? Not sure when Colt retired but seems unlikely he was involved as I think Simpson was still involved with the club right up until his death (1962 ?) and I can't imagine they would have gone by Simpson, who was President of the Club, to employ Colt but you never know.

Niall

[Sean_A]

In a landslide.......

Ciao

Should I assume you mean it will be Cruden Bay in a landslide?  It is interesting that of the people I have spoken with and what I have read (before this posting), the majority of the Scots prefer Nairn and those from the States prefer Cruden Bay.  Curious as to the reasons why people prefer one over the other and if it is a clear choice or one of those, "you can't go wrong with either."

No question about it imo.  I consider CB worth an over-night detour to play and Nairn a decent fall back on course if in the vicinity...roughly a Doak 7 to a Doak 6 (which I think is a decent jump in the scale).  Nairn doesn't have anywhere near the character of CB.  

Ciao

[Alan Ritchie]

I would second the plan of getting Nairn on the same day as castle Stuart. just along the coast but very contrasting in style. it's an easy walk too.

[Niall C]

In a landslide.......

Ciao

Should I assume you mean it will be Cruden Bay in a landslide?  It is interesting that of the people I have spoken with and what I have read (before this posting), the majority of the Scots prefer Nairn and those from the States prefer Cruden Bay.  Curious as to the reasons why people prefer one over the other and if it is a clear choice or one of those, "you can't go wrong with either."

Julian,

Comparing the two is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. CB has a big visual impact with great aesthetics while Nairn is more austere looking. That said when you analyse them tee to green, they are probably equal in terms of movement and elevational change, and both have a hole that has a parkland feel. When people talk about the greens at Nairn they are generally talking about the conditioning rather than the contours but there is plenty of internal movement at Nairn.

As to why the locals have a different view compared to visiting golfers from the US, I suspect that has to do with the tendency of the Scots of never really bothering with whats on the periphery of the course (other than the out of bounds fence !). Think of the plaudits (in Scotland) for Troon with its caravan park at one end, Carnoustie (again, tends to be lauded mainly in Scotland) with the industrial buildings beside the course and numerous others with railway lines/roads bounding the course. Simply put, I don't think Scots and probably golfers in the rest of the UK, are conditioned to think about the aesthetics whereas I suspect that in the US that's a major part of the design.

Of course with the advent of Castle Stuart, Kingsbarns, and Balmedie International, that could very well change in the future.

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Nairn is thoroughly nice...............but there's only one choice IMO if your visiting from afar and unlikely to return frequently and have the opportunity of either a second round at Nairn or a visit to Cruden Bay and that's Cruden Bay every time. Once visited never forgotten. The images will stay in your mind forever.

And the 9-hole St Olaf course at Cruden Bay shouldn't be missed either as it's a cracker.

If your in the area however, and want to really challenge your game with a step up in toughness, head to Royal Aberdeen.

atb

[ward peyronnin]

Niall,

I will have to layoff the cocktails this evening and give my grey cells a chance to revive in order to have a chance of recollecting. I'm assuming it was someone with whom I played or perhaps Robbie Stewart.

My girlfriend and I played it almost everyday and as she is a novice I would then play 18 with the lads so I think that is the reason the pedigree came up as we were very keen on St Olaf's.

May I suggest you PM Frank Pont as he is a Colt man ans has worked with the club; he may know right away.

[Rory Connaughton]

If at Trump, what about Royal Aberdeen?

[Niall C]

Thanks Ward, I'll give Frank a shout.

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

If at Trump, what about Royal Aberdeen?

tbh, the question should be 'If at Royal Aberdeen, what about Trump?'

[Niall C]

there speaks a bitter man who has yet to see the inside of Donalds private jet 

Niall

[Rich Goodale]

If you really need a 4th course, Royal Aberdeen is the one.  If you don't need a 4th course stay another day at Dornoch.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

If at Trump, what about Royal Aberdeen?

tbh, the question should be 'If at Royal Aberdeen, what about Trump?'

+1.  Trump was good... in fact better than expected.  But Royal Aberdeen has character... a patina that takes decades to build... in addition to many great holes weaved through a very unique routing (outward nine in the dunes... inward set on higher/flatter ground).  Trump IS definitely worth playing, especially if you want to see what all the fuss is about.  But, I don't think either Royal Aberdeen or Cruden Bay (back to the original question) are to missed if one is in the area.

[Jon Wiggett]

It depends what you appreciate. As Niall has said it is like comparing oranges and apples. If I am playing matchplay or just a fun round I think CB would just be ahead but if it were strokeplay the definitely Nairn. CB has the bigger dunes and more quirk but Nairn is probably the better balanced course all round.

I would suggest what others have and play another local course maybe one of the lesser known such as Fraserburgh or Peterhead by CB or Golspie, Tain, Brora or Fortrose with RD or Nairn Dunbar, Moray or Boat of Garten.

Jon

[Sean_A]

If at Trump, what about Royal Aberdeen?

tbh, the question should be 'If at Royal Aberdeen, what about Trump?'

It depends on what one is looking for.  I think both are great and about equal in terms of quality, but Aberdeen offers a bit more variety of land and holes.  Trump is more preditcable in its modern sensibilities, but also much prettier and much more expensive...though both are ridiculously over-priced.  Personally, the character of Aberdeen wins out every time for me, but it can't be denied that (in a disappointing way), Trump is great.  We must remember though that Trump has visions of of hosting the big boys so there had to be some trade-offs so far as design character goes. 

If playing Trump I can see the logic of hanging around for a second day because it is quite a drive from the Nairn area. In which case I would recommend Cruden Bay as a kicker for Trump.

Ciao

[Bill Brightly]

Julian, here is a funny story that you might appreciate. Went to Scotland last August with 4 couples and I had the task of choosing the golf courses. We stayed in St. Andrews and played all of our golf in that area, except that I insisted we drive one day to play Cruden Bay. One of the couples objected to the proposed 4+ hours of windshield time, but I railroaded the decision. From everything I had read and all the photos that I had seen, there could be no doubt that the course would be worth the drive, right?

The weather for our trip was absolutely perfect, EXCEPT for the day we went to Cruden Bay... We drove there in heavy rain, and played two holes in a moderate rain. Thankfully, the rain stopped by the third hole but then the fog rolled in... It was so heavy that we could barely see the fairway from each tee. In fact, on one par 3, I think it was 15, we had to guess where the green was. I hit a superb 5 iron, but guessed wrong and we were all 40 yards left of the green! (So we went back to the tee and played the hole over. )  We HEARD the North Sea, but never did get to see it...

So good luck with your decision and pray for good weather.