GolfNow continues to try and destroy golf business

[Mike_Young]

read the article on this FB page where ....if people don't wake up Golf Now will ruin public golf....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Club-Prophet-Systems/162670970444175

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

In my market I'm shocked at how few courses are left participating in Golf Now - pretty much a handful of the dumpiest courses. All the good publics have left Golf Now and are doing their own version of dynamic pricing.

It appears to me that Golf Now is on the losing side of this battle - at least here.

Its a shame they've taken this approach, their Old Tom Morris commercials are some of my favorites.

[Carl Johnson]

Well, I've read the GPS release on the Facebook page and must confess that as a layman (and private club member) I have no idea what this about -- all the technical business verbiage is beyond me.  However, good luck to whoever (other than GolfNow) needs it.

[Jeff Taylor]

People and clubs that want to transact via the internet will not be denied. Either Golf Now is in compliance with it's contractual partners or it's not. The courts will decide or the parties will settle. The larger issue is easily solved and this little squabble is short term at best.

[Tim_Weiman]

read the article on this FB page where ....if people don't wake up Golf Now will ruin public golf....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Club-Prophet-Systems/162670970444175

Mike,

Can you outline the issues for those of us who never even heard of Golf Now before this thread?

[Jud_T]

Unless there's a monopoly ruling, I don't see the problem with them trying to bring the software in house.  This should reduce costs in the long run and be better for consumers, at least in theory.  I haven't used GolfNow but I see no real issue here at first glance.  If golf course pricing is racing to the bottom in certain markets, this is simply expediting the process like the internet has for any number of businesses.  Just means the real supply and demand curve will adjust quicker than in the past.  Free markets can be a bitch but they're the best thing humans have come up with...

[PCCraig]

GolfNow has destroyed the golf business the sameway Priceline has destroyed the hotel industry... 

[B.Ross]

golf now, and all the competitors its spawned, are quite simply awesome. for when i play public, it's hands down the best way to find value in a tee time. and i happen to really like value. course pricing ought to always be dynamic and should run on supply & demand and adjust as the market bears. a new app i really love is last minute golfer, which lets you only look at tee times available w/in next 24 hours.

[Jim_Kennedy]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-debate-over-third-party-tee-time-services-1415408449

[Eric Strulowitz]

In my market I'm shocked at how few courses are left participating in Golf Now - pretty much a handful of the dumpiest courses. All the good publics have left Golf Now and are doing their own version of dynamic pricing.

It appears to me that Golf Now is on the losing side of this battle - at least here.

Its a shame they've taken this approach, their Old Tom Morris commercials are some of my favorites.

I can only speak for the Atlanta market, where I reside.  There are many many choices available on Golfnow, and many of them are fine public courses.  The last time I used Golfnow, it was at a really decent course for about $20 and the starter told me that around 40% of the bookings were from Golfnow and if it was not for them, the club  would probably be closed.

A tee sheet with discounted tee times sure beats an empty tee sheet.  Golfnow is a great program, and it has not destroyed the golf business, it may have helped save many a course.  And made golf available to those who otherwise could not afford to pay rack rate.

[A.G._Crockett]

While I agree with the individuals that have used GolfNow that there are values to be had for the golfer, I'd like to hear more about what problems are being created for course operators.

Just last month, I had an operator in NC tell me the exact same thing that Mike said in the OP.  I didn't really understand what he was saying, and he continues to have many tee times available on GolfNow.  Like Carl Johnson, I read the article and had no real idea what I was reading.

Mike, can you break this down for us as to what is going on and what the problem is?  FWIW, I don't use GolfNow except to get an idea of availability when I'm on the road; I don't like paying up front and not dealing directly with the operator.  But I need a simple version of what the problem is.

[JC Jones]

read the article on this FB page where ....if people don't wake up Golf Now will ruin public golf....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Club-Prophet-Systems/162670970444175

Damn that capitalism!!

[Tom_Doak]

While I agree with the individuals that have used GolfNow that there are values to be had for the golfer, I'd like to hear more about what problems are being created for course operators.

Just last month, I had an operator in NC tell me the exact same thing that Mike said in the OP.  I didn't really understand what he was saying, and he continues to have many tee times available on GolfNow.  Like Carl Johnson, I read the article and had no real idea what I was reading.

Mike, can you break this down for us as to what is going on and what the problem is?  FWIW, I don't use GolfNow except to get an idea of availability when I'm on the road; I don't like paying up front and not dealing directly with the operator.  But I need a simple version of what the problem is.

A.G.:

Mike has opined on this before, so I'll save him the trouble.  He is saying if Golf Now succeeds in turning a good % of the public golfer market into very price-sensitive shoppers with no loyalty to any course, they will make it impossible for most small operators to succeed.  Their model does not seem to care whether the course operators go bankrupt as long as they get their $ on the way down.

I guess that's capitalism, but not the best feature of it.

[Jud_T]

So a guy who loved his local muni and played every Saturday and Sunday for $50 is now going to jump to the dogtrack across town because they're offering last minute $30 tee times?  I'm not sure what the issue is here besides the dissemination of information.

[Matt MacIver]

Knowledge is power, and in capitalism it works both ways. Operators book way more rounds than the average consumer does.  So they sellers have the edge, however the customer is always right so the sellers better put a competitive product in place.

I've used it or something similar and found it easy and helpful, and once I even decided to save $10 by driving ten minutes further because I was indifferent to the courses - actually not true, I hadn't been to the former in a long time, and had the extra ten minutes to get there. I'm loyal, but not to a fault.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Green fees posted on Golfnow for courses in my area have risen these past two seasons. Last Monday we were at one of them that had two discounted GN times listed for that day, the rest were at their standard rate. The course was loaded with players. 

They were all smiles in the shop. 

The other software/POS vendors probably aren't too happy to see their client base shrink, but that's not the public's concern unless/until GN monopolizes the market. 

I did have a look at the Golfnow "Deal Caddy" section where they sell equipment and soft goods (good for a few chuckles): 
http://dealcaddy.golfnow.com/
   

[Mike_Young]

GolfNow has destroyed the golf business the sameway Priceline has destroyed the hotel industry...  

Pat,
The two are not the same.Two entirely different models.

With GolfNow you must barter tee times.  To sign up for the basic GolfNow a course must give them a tee time each day(4 people) and if you wish to have a banner ad come up every so often you must give them a second tee time.  They can sell these tee times for whatever price they choose and the golf course derives nothing from it except the ability to  list on their site.  What is happening in markets like Atlanta is that there are so many of their own discounted tee times that they are selling the discounted times but many course are only getting one sale for their regular times maybe once a day if lucky.  The conversion rate a few months ago was less than 9% and  I have seen days where GolfNow would make over a $1000 per week selling their times at a course and only sell three times for the actual course.  It creates a race to the bottom with no customer loyalty.  The issue with the POS sale systems is that they have developed one which could create a monopoly and they have gone into vendors such as US Foods and various fertilizer compnanies and created buying opportunities whereby that vendor is not allowed to sell you cheaper product than the GolfNow subscriber.  Priceline model would be great and golf could benefit from such since the clubs would just pay a fee for each round sold.  The problem is the barter and you get nothing for that time.  Think of this...GolfNow sell 8 tee times per day at a course for 20 each.  That's $1120 per week or $58000 per year for a teesheet and the golf course gets none of that money.  It's a terrible model and most customers have no idea the course receives none of that money.

[Mike_Young]

In my market I'm shocked at how few courses are left participating in Golf Now - pretty much a handful of the dumpiest courses. All the good publics have left Golf Now and are doing their own version of dynamic pricing.

It appears to me that Golf Now is on the losing side of this battle - at least here.

Its a shame they've taken this approach, their Old Tom Morris commercials are some of my favorites.

I can only speak for the Atlanta market, where I reside.  There are many many choices available on Golfnow, and many of them are fine public courses.  The last time I used Golfnow, it was at a really decent course for about $20 and the starter told me that around 40% of the bookings were from Golfnow and if it was not for them, the club  would probably be closed.

A tee sheet with discounted tee times sure beats an empty tee sheet.  Golfnow is a great program, and it has not destroyed the golf business, it may have helped save many a course.  And made golf available to those who otherwise could not afford to pay rack rate.

Eric,
With due respect that starter had no idea what he was talking about.   The course does not receive one dime from the discounted tee times of GolfNow and there is not a single course in ATL that receives 40% of their business from GolfNow.  From the actual numbers I have seen the average is around 9% for ATL market.   
Question...Do you think the guys receiving the discounted rate understand that the course does not receive that money?

[Mike_Young]

While I agree with the individuals that have used GolfNow that there are values to be had for the golfer, I'd like to hear more about what problems are being created for course operators.

Just last month, I had an operator in NC tell me the exact same thing that Mike said in the OP.  I didn't really understand what he was saying, and he continues to have many tee times available on GolfNow.  Like Carl Johnson, I read the article and had no real idea what I was reading.

Mike, can you break this down for us as to what is going on and what the problem is?  FWIW, I don't use GolfNow except to get an idea of availability when I'm on the road; I don't like paying up front and not dealing directly with the operator.  But I need a simple version of what the problem is.

AG and Tim,
Read my replies above and hopefully that will explain...

[Mike_Young]

For those interested this may shed some more light....  http://golfconvergence.com/golf-convergence-april-2015-opinioneditorial/

[Jud_T]

Mike,

1.  If GolfNow is not adding value why do people continue to give them times?

2.  If they are providing volume deals to the large operators this sounds like a business opportunity for another software firm.

3. If there is political graft involved it sounds like a lawsuit or criminal charge is in order.

[Tim_Weiman]

While I agree with the individuals that have used GolfNow that there are values to be had for the golfer, I'd like to hear more about what problems are being created for course operators.

Just last month, I had an operator in NC tell me the exact same thing that Mike said in the OP.  I didn't really understand what he was saying, and he continues to have many tee times available on GolfNow.  Like Carl Johnson, I read the article and had no real idea what I was reading.

Mike, can you break this down for us as to what is going on and what the problem is?  FWIW, I don't use GolfNow except to get an idea of availability when I'm on the road; I don't like paying up front and not dealing directly with the operator.  But I need a simple version of what the problem is.

AG and Tim,
Read my replies above and hopefully that will explain...

Mike: Thanks. Never heard of these guys. Don't see much appeal for the golf course operator.

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

1.  If GolfNow is not adding value why do people continue to give them times?

2.  If they are providing volume deals to the large operators this sounds like a business opportunity for another software firm.

3. If there is political graft involved it sounds like a lawsuit or criminal charge is in order.

Jud,
So many operators felt it would work and are stuck with two year ocntracts.  Also they are afraid if they are not listed on such a datat base they will lose business.  It tkes a while to get off the system...
Some of the management compnanies get better deals and not sure about political graft but could be a monopoly thing soon....

[Eric Strulowitz]

In my market I'm shocked at how few courses are left participating in Golf Now - pretty much a handful of the dumpiest courses. All the good publics have left Golf Now and are doing their own version of dynamic pricing.

It appears to me that Golf Now is on the losing side of this battle - at least here.

Its a shame they've taken this approach, their Old Tom Morris commercials are some of my favorites.

I can only speak for the Atlanta market, where I reside.  There are many many choices available on Golfnow, and many of them are fine public courses.  The last time I used Golfnow, it was at a really decent course for about $20 and the starter told me that around 40% of the bookings were from Golfnow and if it was not for them, the club  would probably be closed.

A tee sheet with discounted tee times sure beats an empty tee sheet.  Golfnow is a great program, and it has not destroyed the golf business, it may have helped save many a course.  And made golf available to those who otherwise could not afford to pay rack rate.

Eric,
With due respect that starter had no idea what he was talking about.   The course does not receive one dime from the discounted tee times of GolfNow and there is not a single course in ATL that receives 40% of their business from GolfNow.  From the actual numbers I have seen the average is around 9% for ATL market.   
Question...Do you think the guys receiving the discounted rate understand that the course does not receive that money?

Hi Mike

It was quite a long time ago since I use Golfnow locally, and maybe I was told wrong, but the course was having a really bad time and I was told that Golfnow really  made a  difference.  So, I am really puzzled here, because if 10 people book times through Golfnow in a given day and the course does not get the money, why would the course even want to bother?  The course collects the money but does not keep it?  Confused, appreciate clarfication, will read all these posts and links again.

[Mike_Young]

Eric,
The course does not get the money for the discounted GolfNow times.  that is paid in advance to Golf Now for a specific tee time.  To add to the hassle the customer does not know the operator receives no money and when they ask the operator to not make them play at the described time or to play by themselves and not the other people that purchase a tee time at the same time they really get pissed.  Also, they get pissed if you don't give them a rain check which comes thru GolfNow and not the operator.  NOW to be clear, the operator does receive money if it is for a tee time booked via GolfNow which is not one of the discounted times. 
And to be clear if there was a tee time sheet where a course could pay a fee for each teetime it would be fine....those vendors are usually purchased by GolfNow once they have enough courses under contract and then they are converted to barter.