Weeds! Am I a snob?

[Buck Wolter]

Played on a course the other day with more than few dandelions (not my home course).  Even the holes that had only a few yellow flowers on the weeds just seemed to distract me and take my eyes away from the design and architecture.

How far off base am I? Does this make me a snob?

I'm Buck Wolter and I am a weed snob --at least when it comes to Dandelions. They aren't that hard to control, hell I can mange them in my yard. Sort of the broken window approach to policing, if Dandelions aren't controlled then what else isn't being looked after. Having Dandelions also makes you a bad neighbor -- who wants to live next to someone with dandelions (besides Pat) and when they turn white they make finding your ball harder. Spray a little 2-4D and knock 'em out --and spray something to deal with the mosquitos while you're at it.

Buck,

and what exactly should you do if you cannot spray??? Hand weed the greens is possible but fairway and roughs what do you suggest? For mosquitos try 'Skin so Soft' from Avon. Works a treat and doesn't stink.

Jon

Further evidence of why I prefer golf across the pond or at the more simpler places here.
A dandelion in the rough-God forbid.
If playable and managaeable (no doubt a big if) I can't think of a better look (or even fairway areas) than having a few low lying wild flowers that sprout quickly enough to flourish and diversify the groundcovers between periodic mowings.
Uniform,irrigated, consistent rough is sooooooo bland, to say nothing of the environmental benefits of the natural approach.

Jeff - Have you ever seen unchecked dandelions? they are called weeds for a reason. In the midwest if you don't treat dandelions for a few years --good luck finding grass they will literally take over a lawn and I would assume a golf course.

Jon- Minnesota mosquitos are not deterred by anything that doesn't have DEET and that only slows them down.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jeff - Have you ever seen unchecked dandelions? they are called weeds for a reason. In the midwest if you don't treat dandelions for a few years --good luck finding grass they will literally take over a lawn and I would assume a golf course.

Jon- Minnesota mosquitos are not deterred by anything that doesn't have DEET and that only slows them down.

Buck,

that should mean that any area that is not treated will be wall to wall dandelions and that grass does not exist in the natural environment This is clearly not the case but I do understand what you are trying to say. Have you ever wondered what the reason is for your grass not being able to compete with the dandelions?

Jon

[Tom Bacsanyi]

The high-end course I work at has a yearly dandelion explosion that is managed through a number of rounds of spot herbicide application.  There is a span of a couple of weeks generally early in the season where the dandelions are quite numerous.  But we work hard at it and by early summer they are out of sight.  The point is, managing the condition of a golf course is a PROCESS.  If you are at a specific fixed point in the process and base your entire evaluation of the course in that vacuum, then yes, you are a snob.

[Buck Wolter]

The high-end course I work at has a yearly dandelion explosion that is managed through a number of rounds of spot herbicide application.  There is a span of a couple of weeks generally early in the season where the dandelions are quite numerous.  But we work hard at it and by early summer they are out of sight.  The point is, managing the condition of a golf course is a PROCESS.  If you are at a specific fixed point in the process and base your entire evaluation of the course in that vacuum, then yes, you are a snob.

That sounds perfect  -- what I do in my yard as well.

[Steve Okula]

Jeff - Have you ever seen unchecked dandelions? they are called weeds for a reason. In the midwest if you don't treat dandelions for a few years --good luck finding grass they will literally take over a lawn and I would assume a golf course.

Jon- Minnesota mosquitos are not deterred by anything that doesn't have DEET and that only slows them down.

Buck,

that should mean that any area that is not treated will be wall to wall dandelions and that grass does not exist in the natural environment This is clearly not the case but I do understand what you are trying to say. Have you ever wondered what the reason is for your grass not being able to compete with the dandelions?

Jon

Grass exists in the natural environment growing 2-3 feet tall, not regularly mown to a fraction of an inch. There is no comparison.

Dandelions and other opportunistic weeds can germinate in divots and earthworm castings, for example, in an otherwise healthy and well managed turf.

[Jon Wiggett]

Grass exists in the natural environment growing 2-3 feet tall, not regularly mown to a fraction of an inch. There is no comparison.

Dandelions and other opportunistic weeds can germinate in divots and earthworm castings, for example, in an otherwise healthy and well managed turf.

First, not all grass grows to 2-3 feet tall in a natural environment. Some grows taller much grows short, it depends on the grass type and situation. Secondly in a natural environment grass is often grazed by wild animals often to well under the inch mark. It is obvious you do not understand enough about grass.

Jon

[Sean_A]

Don't mind weeds in the rough (I think its good for rough because they add different colour and playing conditions and rough should be varied as found in nature) and some daisies and other less intrusive weeds in fairways...but they still need to be controlled or within a few years there will be problems with fairways. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

I can recall a time when UK fairways weren't cut very frequently when there were daisies present most of the time. Also daisies on the greens believe it or not! Damn hard to find a white ball amongst them sometimes.
atb

Thomas,

the reason why there are fewer daisies about in the UK is due to herbicides. You can cut every day and still get them. I recon it will be another 15 years before there is a total ban on herbicides for sport fields here in Europe so you may need to get used to them again. Having said that many if not most courses up here in the Highlands have some wild flowers growing in semi rough and fairway areas. Me, I quite like them and they certainly are not out of place.

Jon

I'm going to stand by these and my statements.
Worrying about a few weeds in the rough or fairways does make you a snob IMHO, but to each his own.
Just because they can of course take over a course, (or yard- as if somehow that's relevant) doesn't mean they will.
I've seen weeds. clover and dandelions in MANY of the courses I've visited and lo and behold when I return again the following years they haven't "literally taken over" and I've had no problem "finding grass"
Just because there a few about doesn't mean they aren't being controlled or monitored.
A 200 acre parcel that is "weed" free is sterile, non eco friendly and IMHO opinion quite unattractive.

[Brent Hutto]

It was never clear whether the original question was about dandelions in the rough or in the fairways.

I'd say anyone who begrudges some seasonal dandelions popping up in the rough is definitely a snob.

I'd say anyone who begrudges dandelions growing in the fairway is not a "snob" but more like a "golfer".

And by the way, I'm a snob about many things. Just not dandelions. Nothing wrong with a bit of snobbery.

[Buck Wolter]

I'm going to stand by these and my statements.
Worrying about a few weeds in the rough or fairways does make you a snob IMHO, but to each his own.
Just because they can of course take over a course, (or yard- as if somehow that's relevant) doesn't mean they will.
I've seen weeds. clover and dandelions in MANY of the courses I've visited and lo and behold when I return again the following years they haven't "literally taken over" and I've had no problem "finding grass"
Just because there a few about doesn't mean they aren't being controlled or monitored.
A 200 acre parcel that is "weed" free is sterile, non eco friendly and IMHO opinion quite unattractive.

Jeff-
I'm guessing we're actually pretty close on what we think is acceptable. My favorite course  has a great fescue playing surface that does have an occasional dandelion or ant hill. The rough is about the same and the native and bunkers are 'native' with prairie grass, wild flowers, milkweed and the occasional thistle. I'd take this over Augusta green and sterile any time.

[Steve Okula]

Buck, your photo is a good example of grass growing in its natural state. It looks to be about 2-3 feet high to me.

[Jon Wiggett]

Buck, your photo is a good example of grass growing in its natural state. It looks to be about 2-3 feet high to me.