Trees in or adjacent to bunkers

[Thomas Dai]

Benjamins photo on Tom Doak's thread about photos for the Confidential Guide Vol II got me thinking about bunkers either with trees inside them or immediately adjacent to them.

A good feature or a bad one?

Seems like if you're in the bunker, which is effectively a penalty shot for many folks, but your ball is up against a tree or a tree is impeding your stance or swing or shot, then it's almost like a double penalty......and yes I realise you shouldn't have hit it there in the first place....... but sometimes things don't go according to plan.

I've copied the photo that got me thinking about this subject below - I hope it's re-use is okay Benjamin - absolutely fantastic photo by the way.


I've seen other examples as well. Valderrama in Spain and TPC-Sawgrass come to mind.

Thoughts?

atb

[Benjamin Litman]

Thomas: Thanks for the kind words, and, yes, you're always welcome to re-use my pictures. As for your architecture question, I thought about it quite a bit during my late-February round at Harbour Town, which features numbers trees in/adjacent to bunkers (to say nothing of the many tree-dotted waste areas lining fairways, there are trees in bunkers behind 7 green and to the right of 16 green--both pictured below). Implicit in your question is that it is limited to green-side bunkers, or those that have the potential to catch approach shots (or tee shots on par 3s). Obviously, there are many off-the-tee hazards that are doubly penal--rough, pine straw, or "other" with trees all around. So the question is really whether we should accept the same possibility in by-the-green hazards or whether those should be "cleaner" and less penal. Although I'm generally an opponent of internal inconsistencies in most things, I'm inclined to say that it's okay in this instance--the reason being that recovery opportunities dwindle as you get closer to the green. Accordingly, to the extent there are trees in/adjacent to greenside bunkers, the bunkers must be amply large and the trees must be sufficiently narrow to allow the golfer to play around them.

Harbour Town GL, Hole 7 (reverse view from behind green)

Harbour Town GL, Hole 16 (reverse view from back right of green)

[Carl Rogers]

Sawgrass 16 as an example.  I think they look very cool .... but as you say highly penal!

[Blake Conant]

One issue from a construction standpoint are the roots.  Building something so close are you disturbing too much root mass?  Will the roots grow into the bunker?  It's nice to be able to make those decisions in the field when you can get into the dirt. 

The original photo looks like a well thought out way to incorporate an interesting piece of nature into the golf course without really affecting playability.  Pine Valley has a few instances like that as well.  PV also has a few instances where the tree needs to go.  I'm thinking one on the right greenside bunker on 13?

If the time is taken to appreciate and incorporate a cool tree into a feature without disturbing playability i'm all for it. 

[Connor Dougherty]

Immediately thought of the menacing tree in front of the bunker on 9 at Bandon Trails

Trails 9 by connoradougherty, on Flickr

[Brett Hochstein]

One issue from a construction standpoint are the roots.  Building something so close are you disturbing too much root mass?  Will the roots grow into the bunker?  It's nice to be able to make those decisions in the field when you can get into the dirt. 

The original photo looks like a well thought out way to incorporate an interesting piece of nature into the golf course without really affecting playability.  Pine Valley has a few instances like that as well.  PV also has a few instances where the tree needs to go.  I'm thinking one on the right greenside bunker on 13?

If the time is taken to appreciate and incorporate a cool tree into a feature without disturbing playability i'm all for it. 

This was the first thing that I thought of.  I've wanted to get up pretty close to a tree before, but I decided against it due to fighting the roots and then probably having to have someone rip the tree out later due to killing it.  If you can pull it off though, and it doesn't affect play penally, then it can be a pretty cool looking feature to have.

The second thing I thought of was Clear Creek.  I've not seen the place in person, but the image on the second page of Ran's review immediately jumped to mind.  Very cool and very fitting of the setting. 

[Jud_T]

How about Cacti?

Bahia de Los Suenos #4

[Tom_Doak]

How about Cacti?

Bahia de Los Suenos #4

Jud:

It's just as well I left the cactus ... there aren't too many golfers getting behind it these days.

[Josh Stevens]

There was of course the famed old pine on the 9th hole of the Australian that Mike Clayton got into an argument with.  It did not survive Nicklaus's redo.

[Jon Cavalier]

[Rees Milikin]

There are quite a few of trees in or directly in front of bunkers on the Pine Barrens course at World Woods.  The penalty of being in the hazard is more than enough, toss a tree in the way and it turns a one stroke penalty into 2+.

[Thomas Dai]

Good points about the maintenance, roots etc.

Another aspect is the rules - things drop off trees, twigs, leaves, cones, all that kind of stuff. In a 'standard' bunker if your ball is next to such natural debris is would be tough, play it as it lies, you can't move natural debris. If the bunker is of the modern-ish waste-bunker variety (ie one where it's designated you can ground your club/remove debris) then you can remove the natural debris. So there's an even greater potential penalty for being in a 'genuine bunker' with a tree growing within it.

atb

PS - Jon - where's the course in your second photo? Looks kind of a GB&I-ish links but the truck doesn't seem a GB&I-spec truck.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I was at Edmonton Country Club yesterday. There's a big, old, gnarly, twisted willow (or something similar) in a bunker right of the 2nd green there. It's so odd I almost started to like it (but not really!).

If I knew about this thread 24 hours ago, I would have taken a photo 

[Kyle Harris]

There are quite a few of trees in or directly in front of bunkers on the Pine Barrens course at World Woods.  The penalty of being in the hazard is more than enough, toss a tree in the way and it turns a one stroke penalty into 2+.

How do you figure?

One shot to strike the ball sideways and be in a position where the tee shot should have been.

It turns a half-shot penalty into a full-shot penalty.

[Charlie Gallagher]

I have no photo, but there are small "crab apple" trees in some of the bunkers at World Woods. I have to say I thought it was foolish and unnecessary. The point  previous posters made about detritus and roots are valid criticisms.   

[Greg Tallman]

How about Cacti?

Bahia de Los Suenos #4

Jud:

It's just as well I left the cactus ... there aren't too many golfers getting behind it these days.

Is that back right of the green? I doubt that bunker saw much action when the course was "busy". One of the handful of holes I appreciated more with each play. Could never really get comfortable with the line from the tee.

[Jason Way]

This pic by Steve DeWalle from GolfTripper/Itinerant Golfer is from Crystal Downs #12.  If I recall correctly there are a handful of spots throughout the course that have this feature.  I love the look of it.

As far as whether or not it is too penal, I tend to lean toward the "hazards are supposed to be hazardous" end of the spectrum.