[Mike Hendren]

This site seems to be losing momentum.  Perhaps an early warning sign?

Bogey

[Garland Bayley]

A lot of what has driven this site is new course openings. That driver is greatly diminished at this time. We talk more about closings than openings these days.

[David_Tepper]

With new courses (designed by the likes of Doak, C&C, Hanse, etc.) being added at Cabot Cliffs, Streamsong, Bandon and elsewhere, I am surprised anyone could come to such a conclusion.

This Golden Age lives on!

[John Kavanaugh]

Odd calling this a Golden Age when more courses are closing and the ability to make a living from the game have declined at a prodigious rate.  This is the dark age of everything golf.

Truth is architecture wise I doubt there has ever been a time when same ole, same ole was so heralded.  The 80's called, they want their creativity back.

[Mike Hendren]

David, it seems golf architecture has been reduced to stunning courses on stunning sites as evidenced by your post.  I don't see anybody out there doing more with less.  We seem to be in a rut, albeit an exotic one.

Bogey

[Garland Bayley]

David, it seems golf architecture has been reduced to stunning courses on stunning sites as evidenced by your post.  I don't see anybody out there doing more with less.  We seem to be in a rut, albeit an exotic one.

Bogey

Is Coore and Crenshaw at Trinity Forest a stunning site?

[Ed Brzezowski]

Figures, I finally get 20 guys at my club interested in our clubs designer and now it is all dying off.

Hopefully we are too dense to read the warning signs and will keep up a good fight at getting the course restored correctly. Maybe that is where the immediate future lies? Restoring the old classics and preservation ?

[Steve Lang]

  Bogey,

Things have evolved very much these last 15-20 years don't you think, but closing?  

CCFAD has come and largely gone as a model.. the real estate developer TopGolf is not really a replacement, but appears to have some sustainable money making hold on the fad crazed masses that want a drink and some innocent ball striking.

Isn't some more perspective on time scale needed?

[Mike Hendren]

David, it seems golf architecture has been reduced to stunning courses on stunning sites as evidenced by your post.  I don't see anybody out there doing more with less.  We seem to be in a rut, albeit an exotic one.

Bogey

Is Coore and Crenshaw at Trinity Forest a stunning site?

G, it doesn't help your argument that you've cited a course that doesn't yet exist.

Bogey

[Garland Bayley]

David, it seems golf architecture has been reduced to stunning courses on stunning sites as evidenced by your post.  I don't see anybody out there doing more with less.  We seem to be in a rut, albeit an exotic one.

Bogey

Is Coore and Crenshaw at Trinity Forest a stunning site?

G, it doesn't help your argument that you've cited a course that doesn't yet exist.

Bogey

So when David cites yet to exist courses at stunning sites he gets a pass?
Trinity Forest is much farther along than Hanse at either Streamsong or Bandon.

Is Streamsong a stunning site? After all it is a mine reclamation.

[Carl Rogers]

Form follows financing.  Destination golf, golf developers finance golf courses.  If they are going charge super high dollar to tee it up, then there has to be some big wow element to it ... fairly self evident to me.

Who makes $ on junior golf?

This thread does not mean, I presume, the demise of the Architects of the Second Golden Age, right?

[Jason Thurman]

John has a point. The closing of the window for this Second Golden Age is really just a byproduct of contraction in the golf market overall.

Bandon, Cabot, and Streamsong may be great, but three locations does not an age make. The current pool of architects is a talented one, but golf has a few things to fix before it will be popular enough to spur the new course growth needed to make the Second Golden Age a reality.

[David_Tepper]

"Bandon, Cabot, and Streamsong may be great, but three locations does not an age make"

Jason T. -

But it is not just 3 locations (and remember those 3 locations have brought or will bring at least 10 new courses to be built. There is Barnbougle, Cape Wickham, Castle Stuart, among others. There have also been a significant number of wonderful restorations &  renovations: Pinehurst, Los Angles CC , Philadelphia CC, the Cal Club, etc.

The beat goes on.

DT

[Sean_A]

This site seems to be losing momentum.  Perhaps an early warning sign?

Bogey

Bogey

I do wonder if the current crop of archies have run out of ideas...or even if there are anymore ideas to explore.  I don't see much in pix which really intrigues me.  There is definitely a certain sameness about a lot of new stuff, but I guess this was likely always the case.  That said, when golfers easily circle the globe it is difficult to see how the discerning golfer can be continuously delighted by recent and older offerings.

Ciao

[Jonathan Mallard]

This site seems to be losing momentum.  Perhaps an early warning sign?

Bogey

Tom is sourcing photos for the 2nd volume of the updated Confidential Guide.

When that's out, I suspect there will be much key punching.

[Tom_Doak]

Bogey

I do wonder if the current crop of archies have run out of ideas...or even if there are anymore ideas to explore.  I don't see much in pix which really intrigues me.  There is definitely a certain sameness about a lot of new stuff, but I guess this was likely always the case.  That said, when golfers easily circle the globe it is difficult to see how the discerning golfer can be continuously delighted by recent and older offerings.

Ciao

Well, I just got back from a day at Forest Dunes.  It's early, but I'll venture that it will be intriguing.

[David_Tepper]

And I forgot to mention the Mike Keiser project under construction in Wisconsin!

[Gene Greco]

This site seems to be losing momentum.  Perhaps an early warning sign?

Bogey

It should be noted that you are coming up to the 10 year anniversary of the moniker "Bogey" or the more swashbuckling offshoot, "Bogero."
As this milestone draws nearer we anticipate unbridled excitement among those involved in the Discussion Group.
"Momentum" will be restored and then rise to unprecedented levels.

[Jason Thurman]

Exactly David. There are about a dozen locations globally where great golf courses are being built, and all can be easily accessed by any skilled orienteer via a three-day combination of air, sea, road, caravan, yak, and Sherpa travel.

There's no doubt that certain classic design tenets have been embraced by several notable recent architects, and there's no doubt that some great courses are being built. But the Golden Age produced a huge boom in golf courses and brought the game to a widely expanded population. This second "Golden Age" has made more of a contribution to charter air travel and GPS navigation than it has to the growth of the game of golf.

There are about 12 new courses being built in the US each year, and if we're lucky, we might get one or two globally noteworthy courses as well. If that constitutes a Golden Age, the Bronze Age is really going to suck.

[Sean_A]

Bogey

I do wonder if the current crop of archies have run out of ideas...or even if there are anymore ideas to explore.  I don't see much in pix which really intrigues me.  There is definitely a certain sameness about a lot of new stuff, but I guess this was likely always the case.  That said, when golfers easily circle the globe it is difficult to see how the discerning golfer can be continuously delighted by recent and older offerings.

Ciao

Well, I just got back from a day at Forest Dunes.  It's early, but I'll venture that it will be intriguing.

Yes, the reversable course sounds very cool...something I would definitely want to see at some point regardless of how the holes look....because lets face it, there is no way the holes will be anything less than good.  But this (and Pont's Reversable) is a blip on the graph.  Mostly I see courses which are without a doubt very fine, but heavily reliant on location to add the pizzaz.  Not that there is anything wrong with this.

Ciao

[Mike_Young]

This site seems to be losing momentum.  Perhaps an early warning sign?

Bogey

Bogey

I do wonder if the current crop of archies have run out of ideas...or even if there are anymore ideas to explore.  I don't see much in pix which really intrigues me.  There is definitely a certain sameness about a lot of new stuff, but I guess this was likely always the case.  That said, when golfers easily circle the globe it is difficult to see how the discerning golfer can be continuously delighted by recent and older offerings.

Ciao

Here's what losing or has lost momentum....golf courses that can't sustain themselves financially without real estate subsidies.  Ideas?..Are checkerboard designers out of ideas?  ..there are only so many way to design a checkerboard for checkerboard designers.  Of course they can change materials and do them in marble or ivory and play the checker games in the finest hotels in the world but there is only so much market for those fine checkerboards and they really don't bring in new checker players.  This site focuses on the four or five projects that are built for a national audience and need national media exposure.  There were plenty of projects built during the golden age that were built to enhance clubs and communities with no need to advertise outside of such.  Cheers...

[David_Tepper]

Jason T. -

You may be confusing a golden age for golf architecture with a golden age for golf course construction. I am focusing on the quality of the courses that have and are being built, not the quantity.

DT

[Jud_T]

Jason T. -

You may be confusing a golden age for golf architecture with a golden age for golf course construction. I am focusing on the quality of the courses that have and are being built, not the quantity.

DT

+1.  They're as good or better than anything built since Sand Hills broke ground.

[Ian Andrew]

Boy, I really don't agree.
The worst stretch is actually in the rear mirror.

It' not busy by any means, but North American golf architecture is far more active now than it was a few years ago.
It was hidden on GCA by people catching up with what was built.
The site is very myopic in what it covers and that also hides the larger picture.

The site also lags the reality of the business by about two years.

I honestly think we're back in growth mode, but understand how understated that actual growth will be.
It will be painfully slow for about a decade as we continue to digest what happened in recent times.
Golf mirrors the economy and has fallen in lockstep with the tiny incremental move forward.

My2C

[Ronald Montesano]

This site seems to be losing momentum.  Perhaps an early warning sign?

Bogey

It should be noted that you are coming up to the 10 year anniversary of the moniker "Bogey" or the more swashbuckling offshoot, "Bogero."
As this milestone draws nearer we anticipate unbridled excitement among those involved in the Discussion Group.
"Momentum" will be restored and then rise to unprecedented levels.

The linguist speaketh...proper spelling is "Boguero." To maintain the hard "g" sound in Spanish, we tuck a silent "u" in there. "Bogero" would be pronounced "bo-HAIR-o"

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