Your top "Dye redans"?

[Matt Kardash]

Seeing the topic about the homepage photo (14th at Kiawah) got me thinking about how Pete Dye has built a ton of redan-like par 3's. Which do you think are his best. Just to get it started I will put down 3 of his most noteable.

Looking at the 3 I listed they all have similar characteristics.Neither has a traditional looking redan bunker a la Macdonald/Raynor. The kick slope towards the left seems to start at least 1/3 of the way into the green. Each of the greens are huge. 2 of the 3 greens are severely elevated. How do you find this type of "Dye redan" compares to a more traditional version?

Kiawah


French Lick


Whistling Straits

[PCCraig]

I like Crooked Stick's...I think it was the 17th?

[Matt Kardash]

I believe this is the hole you are referring to. Yes, it is the 17th at Crooked Stick. Just posting a pic for reference.

[Nigel Islam]

I agree with the ones mentioned and I really like the Dye FL one and the Kiawah one. Using some imagination, I'm throwing #3 at Honors out as a reverse redan, #7 at Brickyard, and #3 at Kearney Hills (even if it might not have been Pete)

Can you claim 17 at Harbour Town as a redan? The angle and bunker is correct but green slope is iffy.

[Ross Harmon]

I believe this is the hole you are referring to. Yes, it is the 17th at Crooked Stick. Just posting a pic for reference.

That pic is out of date... Crooked Stick's 17th hole got a makeover during the offseason, the maintenance Twitter page just posted before and after pics:

https://twitter.com/CSGCMaint/status/588514431862067201

[Matt Kardash]

Wow, that is a shame that they completely changed the hole. Now it is just another typical water hole.

[Bill Brightly]

I'm confused. Which is the "before" pic?  I've never played the course. Is the pond new? Or did they fill in the pond?

https://twitter.com/CSGCMaint/status/588514431862067201

[Matt Bielawa]

Pond is definitely new.

[David Davis]

Just what all the template redans need, a man made fishing hole to improve aesthetics....just curious, what kind of fish did they stock it with?

Wouldn't that be a cool addition to North Berwick as well?

[Anthony_Nysse]

#2 at Long Cove is a personal favorite, but I also REALLY like #3 at Colleton River Dye for it's "uniqueness."

[Josh Tarble]

I think the 7th at Brickyard Crossing is a really good version of Dye's redan.  Even plays like a somewhat traditional version.  Kickplate and front to back sloping green.  It is tough when the wind is up though

photo by Matthew Sander

[Michael George]

My favorite is the reverse redan at Pete Dye GC - #16. 

[Nigel Islam]

I think the 7th at Brickyard Crossing is a really good version of Dye's redan.  Even plays like a somewhat traditional version.  Kickplate and front to back sloping green.  It is tough when the wind is up though

photo by Matthew Sander

Josh I have only played there once, but I remember that being a difficult hole because of the elevation of the green. In fact that was one of my favorite holes on the course.

[Josh Tarble]

It's definitely a difficult hole.  If you don't hit the green you're looking at trying to get up and down to a green at least 4 or 5 feet above your head.  It's one of the more unique holes on the course.    I think in general the course has at least a couple very unique holes - not to mention a one of a kind setting.

[Scott Sander]

I'm stunned nearly to the point of silence by the before/after at CS.
That left bunker was one of my favorite features in Indiana.

[John Nixon]

I'd love to hear the rationale for changing #17 at CS. Given how much we're led to believe Mr. Dye tinkers with the course it's hard to imagine that was done without consulting him.

[Matt Bielawa]

There's 0% chance it was done without Dye's consultation.  That pond would be nearly visible from his house.  The pond at #16 was a result of his tinkering a while back as well.  A member told me that Dye has tweaked #17 a number of times, always thinking that it's not quite right.  Obviously, this is more than a little tweak!

[Phil McDade]

Matt:

I've always thought the 15th at Dye's Meadow Valleys course in Kohler, WI, has some Redan-like qualities to it; it's certainly receptive to a running draw from the right for a pin left-of-center on that green. And short is death, similar to the deep penal bunkers of a Redan.

I think the 15th is the best hole on a 36-hole complex otherwise filled with......well, let's not go there again.

From Joe Bausch's thread of a few years ago:

You don't get much of a breather on this bunkerless par 3 15th.



Green tee view:



View of the green from the 16th tee:



From right of the green, which slopes to the back from the middle part on:

[Matt Kardash]

I'm stunned nearly to the point of silence by the before/after at CS.
That left bunker was one of my favorite features in Indiana.

I agree. It's a travesty. It reminds me of Jack Nicklaus turning the 16th hole at Muirfield Village into a similar sort of pond par 3.

[Greg Clark]

I wasn't aware they had done that to 17 at Crooked Stick.  I thought the left bunker was hazard enough, and a cool feature.  What a shame.

[Josh Tarble]

I'm stunned nearly to the point of silence by the before/after at CS.
That left bunker was one of my favorite features in Indiana.

I agree. It's a travesty. It reminds me of Jack Nicklaus turning the 16th hole at Muirfield Village into a similar sort of pond par 3.

Only tip CS out to about 230 instead of 180.  Such an unnecessary change.  Was really cool before. Now it's just another golf hole.

[Matt Kardash]

Anthony,

That photo of Colleton makes me think that hole is kind of a low-country version of the 3rd at Whistling Straits (pictured above). It makes all the more sense when you consider both courses opened around the same time. It might have even been the same year?
I remember both Tim Liddy and Ron Whitten being very fond of Colleton Dye. I believe Liddy has it in his top 5 Dye courses, and Ron Whitten wrote that it is better than Long Cove and at least as good as Harbour Town.

[Matt Bielawa]

Anthony,

That photo of Colleton makes me think that hole is kind of a low-country version of the 3rd at Whistling Straits (pictured above). It makes all the more sense when you consider both courses opened around the same time. It might have even been the same year?
I remember both Tim Liddy and Ron Whitten being very fond of Colleton Dye. I believe Liddy has it in his top 5 Dye courses, and Ron Whitten wrote that it is better than Long Cove and at least as good as Harbour Town.

US Junior Amateur is there this year and will be on Fox Sports 1 for two days.  I'm looking forward to seeing it.

http://www.usga.org/championships/us-junior-amateur.html

[Tom_Doak]

#2 at Long Cove is a personal favorite

Anthony:

I have to say I never thought of #2 at Long Cove as a Redan, and I had a lot of time on that green during construction to think about it, while spreading peat with a shovel  

[Scott Wintersteen]

I'm stunned nearly to the point of silence by the before/after at CS.
That left bunker was one of my favorite features in Indiana.

I agree. It's a travesty. It reminds me of Jack Nicklaus turning the 16th hole at Muirfield Village into a similar sort of pond par 3.

It's been a few years since I have been to Crooked Stick but this is just awful.  The 17th hole was a really good par 3 that had a lot of character before this makeover especially the bunker on the left.  Now the hole has lost all its originality.