[Michael Felton]

question for the group.

The 10th at Deal (I think a lot like the 6th) is probably the most confounding hole on the course. You stand on the tee and just have to ask what is a player to do. If it's into the wind or the wind is left to right then it's just a matter of putting it in play and you have to hit a very exacting approach. But what if it is downwind and/or right to left. For the good player suddenly that bunker on the left is clearable and getting within chipping distance of the green is possible. If you fail with that shot you can find yourself in serious trouble, but in that wind condition, the layup leaves you with a very challenging approach.  The green is a fair size but it's playable width and depth with a following wind is very small.

Interestingly the wind that throws up this challenge is very similar to the one that makes 6 a bugger. If 6 is downwind and you lay up you have to hit a great approach to leave you with a fair shot at 2 putts. I think the play is to hit it long and play your next back into the wind. Not easy but beats the alternative. The problem is if you miss with that shot you bring 6 into the mix pretty quickly.  Hopefully without any visits to the sea wall.  The downwind approach on 6 is virtually impossible to get close.

I have to say this situation is a rare one to see in the US. Is that a function of the style of courses or is it a conditioning issue? The downwind approach becomes much easier If an approach will stick when it lands.

Why don't we see this more often in the US? Or do we and I just haven't noticed it? 10 is a very clever hole although I don't like playing it because it's so awkward.  Any hints or tips?

[JNC Lyon]

Michael,

The 10th at Deal is an excellent mid-length four, and it deserves to be highlighted here. In addition to the factors you mention, pin position also plays a big role here. With the pin towards the center or back of the green, players should drive out to the right and away from the lure of the flag. With the pin right, then the golfer wants to come in from the left. I think the 10th is different from the 6th in that the 6th always provides the ground game option to avoid the perils of a downwind approach (I've putted onto that green from 50 yards away before), whereas the 10th requires more of an aerial attack.

Why doesn't this variety exist in the States? I think it does exist with any course that is wide open and has heavy exposure to wind. The other thing the 10th at Deal has going for it is width, both in the tee shot landing area and around the green itself. When you combine wind with width, you get the day-to-day variety you are talking about here. There are plenty of courses in the U.S. that have this combo of features--you just have to look around for it.

[Bill_McBride]

I have played the tenth at Deal several times and have really had a problem hitting the drive out to the right where the approach angle is good.   Typically I'm overcome by the line of instinct and pull hook the drive into the left rough.  From there it's almost impossible to hit an approach on the green.  Gets me every time. 

[Mark Chaplin]

Michael it was interesting how the competitors in the Amateur Championship played both holes. I was lucky enough to walk with two B&B guests for a detailed practise round and talk them through options. On 6 the losing finalist decided his play all week was whatever tee shot left him a full wedge, be it driver or 7 iron off the tee, his attitude was he could hit and hold the green all day long with a full wedge other than taking on the green for small reward.

10 was a different story, against the breeze it made sense to aim at the right hand bunkers and leave a 7-9 iron into the full length of the green. Down or right to left wind they were aiming at the right front greenside bunker. Plenty of players lost the hole directly taking on the green and taking 5 or more from the left gumbo and depression. Taking on the eft bunker off the tee is a fools errand, just hit it as close to the right hand fairly traps as you dare and come in using the full length of the green.

Both are great holes that change daily due to wind direction and the firmness of the ground.

Going back to 6 I've been playing at Deal for over 30 years and have never seen anyone drive and stay on the green.

You will already see at the Hewitt some of the great work James Bledge is doing on the course, Deal is moving forward in leaps and bounds.

[Sean_A]

Going back to 6 I've been playing at Deal for over 30 years and have never seen anyone drive and stay on the green.

My perspective on the hole is forever marred.  On one visit there were two of us on or near as damn it on (easy two putt birdie). 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Strangely whilst being the flattest green on the course, the 6th is the most wind affected and often putts as hard as any.

Shame you won't get to play next month Sean, if you have time on Saturday morning have a little walk around.

[Noel Freeman]

Michael it was interesting how the competitors in the Amateur Championship played both holes. I was lucky enough to walk with two B&B guests for a detailed practise round and talk them through options. On 6 the losing finalist decided his play all week was whatever tee shot left him a full wedge, be it driver or 7 iron off the tee, his attitude was he could hit and hold the green all day long with a full wedge other than taking on the green for small reward.

10 was a different story, against the breeze it made sense to aim at the right hand bunkers and leave a 7-9 iron into the full length of the green. Down or right to left wind they were aiming at the right front greenside bunker. Plenty of players lost the hole directly taking on the green and taking 5 or more from the left gumbo and depression. Taking on the eft bunker off the tee is a fools errand, just hit it as close to the right hand fairly traps as you dare and come in using the full length of the green.

Both are great holes that change daily due to wind direction and the firmness of the ground.




Going back to 6 I've been playing at Deal for over 30 years and have never seen anyone drive and stay on the green.

You will already see at the Hewitt some of the great work James Bledge is doing on the course, Deal is moving forward in leaps and bounds.

Sorry chappers old chum--

I have driven the green on #6 from the back tees with a high cut/slice with a helping wind--seriously the shot banked like a 747 once the southwesterly got a hold of it, my guess is it hit the bank and popped up.  It held the green and I had 8 feet for eagle which I then sunk. Paul Turner is the witness and if he still reads GCA, he can chime in..  Paul hit even a better shot than I, but did not have enough cut on it and ended up on the 7th green.   He was not happy, but they both were majestic plays.  I can say this, the blood rushed thru my veins anticipating if it was on the green right as were were walking around the sand dune/mogul which blocks the view.. Pure meditation in its truest form.

On #10 in June of I believe 2002 with Russell Talley and Jim Reilly (no longer on GCA) I got within maybe 50 feet of the green with a rollicking 3 wood draw which ran forever as the land was hard and super fast.  Somehow I hit a lob wedge into the cup for a 2.

Curiously, I have eagled 4 holes at Deal, a record I have no where else..  I say that not to brag but only to engender further love for the place..  And yes, I realize highlighting my own shotmaking is egocentric etc, but I'm just referring to the holes and how lucky I was twice.

[Mark Chaplin]

Noel I've driven 10 but as I say in 30 years I've never seen a ball hit and hold 6, I'm sure it happens every week.

[Bill_McBride]

Michael it was interesting how the competitors in the Amateur Championship played both holes. I was lucky enough to walk with two B&B guests for a detailed practise round and talk them through options. On 6 the losing finalist decided his play all week was whatever tee shot left him a full wedge, be it driver or 7 iron off the tee, his attitude was he could hit and hold the green all day long with a full wedge other than taking on the green for small reward.

10 was a different story, against the breeze it made sense to aim at the right hand bunkers and leave a 7-9 iron into the full length of the green. Down or right to left wind they were aiming at the right front greenside bunker. Plenty of players lost the hole directly taking on the green and taking 5 or more from the left gumbo and depression. Taking on the eft bunker off the tee is a fools errand, just hit it as close to the right hand fairly traps as you dare and come in using the full length of the green.

Both are great holes that change daily due to wind direction and the firmness of the ground.




Going back to 6 I've been playing at Deal for over 30 years and have never seen anyone drive and stay on the green.

You will already see at the Hewitt some of the great work James Bledge is doing on the course, Deal is moving forward in leaps and bounds.

Sorry chappers old chum--

I have driven the green on #6 from the back tees with a high cut/slice with a helping wind--seriously the shot banked like a 747 once the southwesterly got a hold of it, my guess is it hit the bank and popped up.  It held the green and I had 8 feet for eagle which I then sunk. Paul Turner is the witness and if he still reads GCA, he can chime in..  Paul hit even a better shot than I, but did not have enough cut on it and ended up on the 7th green.   He was not happy, but they both were majestic plays.  I can say this, the blood rushed thru my veins anticipating if it was on the green right as were were walking around the sand dune/mogul which blocks the view.. Pure meditation in its truest form.

On #10 in June of I believe 2002 with Russell Talley and Jim Reilly (no longer on GCA) I got within maybe 50 feet of the green with a rollicking 3 wood draw which ran forever as the land was hard and super fast.  Somehow I hit a lob wedge into the cup for a 2.

Curiously, I have eagled 4 holes at Deal, a record I have no where else..  I say that not to brag but only to engender further love for the place..  And yes, I realize highlighting my own shotmaking is egocentric etc, but I'm just referring to the holes and how lucky I was twice.

Noel/Tuco, if you mean above that Paul drove the 7th green from the 6th tee, that was a prodigious shot!  700 yards?

[Michael Felton]

Noel/Tuco, if you mean above that Paul drove the 7th green from the 6th tee, that was a prodigious shot!  700 yards?

Indeed! I would think the 14th green much more likely.

Thanks all for the insight everyone.

[Noel Freeman]

Michael it was interesting how the competitors in the Amateur Championship played both holes. I was lucky enough to walk with two B&B guests for a detailed practise round and talk them through options. On 6 the losing finalist decided his play all week was whatever tee shot left him a full wedge, be it driver or 7 iron off the tee, his attitude was he could hit and hold the green all day long with a full wedge other than taking on the green for small reward.

10 was a different story, against the breeze it made sense to aim at the right hand bunkers and leave a 7-9 iron into the full length of the green. Down or right to left wind they were aiming at the right front greenside bunker. Plenty of players lost the hole directly taking on the green and taking 5 or more from the left gumbo and depression. Taking on the eft bunker off the tee is a fools errand, just hit it as close to the right hand fairly traps as you dare and come in using the full length of the green.

Both are great holes that change daily due to wind direction and the firmness of the ground.




Going back to 6 I've been playing at Deal for over 30 years and have never seen anyone drive and stay on the green.

You will already see at the Hewitt some of the great work James Bledge is doing on the course, Deal is moving forward in leaps and bounds.

Sorry chappers old chum--

I have driven the green on #6 from the back tees with a high cut/slice with a helping wind--seriously the shot banked like a 747 once the southwesterly got a hold of it, my guess is it hit the bank and popped up.  It held the green and I had 8 feet for eagle which I then sunk. Paul Turner is the witness and if he still reads GCA, he can chime in..  Paul hit even a better shot than I, but did not have enough cut on it and ended up on the 7th green.   He was not happy, but they both were majestic plays.  I can say this, the blood rushed thru my veins anticipating if it was on the green right as were were walking around the sand dune/mogul which blocks the view.. Pure meditation in its truest form.

On #10 in June of I believe 2002 with Russell Talley and Jim Reilly (no longer on GCA) I got within maybe 50 feet of the green with a rollicking 3 wood draw which ran forever as the land was hard and super fast.  Somehow I hit a lob wedge into the cup for a 2.

Curiously, I have eagled 4 holes at Deal, a record I have no where else..  I say that not to brag but only to engender further love for the place..  And yes, I realize highlighting my own shotmaking is egocentric etc, but I'm just referring to the holes and how lucky I was twice.

Noel/Tuco, if you mean above that Paul drove the 7th green from the 6th tee, that was a prodigious shot!  700 yards?

sorry typo-- the 7th tee is where Paul's drive went.. Easily a 310-320y drive.. It was awesome.. Paul Turner once had some serious game..On if I recall the 16th at Perranporth he hit a 1 iron, yes a 1 iron to 1 inch from the cup.. best shot I've ever ever ever seen...probably 220 into the wind.. it was a shot any pro would love to call their own.. Would have been the best ace I've ever seen by far... Or even surpass my double eagle at Littlestone!

[Mark Chaplin]

As you know Noel getting tangled on the bank of the 7th tee can easily result in a 6. Despite appearing simple 6 is one hole where you'd take a par all year long.

[Scott Warren]

Going back to 6 I've been playing at Deal for over 30 years and have never seen anyone drive and stay on the green.

I watched James Boon drive it to 20ft from the hole once. He had, however, just smashed his first drive into the Channel.

[James Boon]

Scott,

I was going to point out to Chappers that the green can be hit from the tee based on my own experience but decided not to as it raises the issue of my first attempt. When I spotted you had replied I realised that you would make this know to everyone...  Now if you want to start a thread about how easy the 14th is, please go ahead! 

Cheers,

James

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