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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2015, 10:49:49 AM »

I'm very curious to hear from Tom on this, as I can't imagine he wasn't involved in the architect-selection process.

I wasn't contacted at all, Benjamin.  I don't know how many architects were contacted.

When I was at Castle Stuart two years ago, they seemed to think the construction of the second course was still several years off.  Must be a good sign that the place is thriving if they are going ahead with it sooner.

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2015, 11:24:59 AM »
Interesting. Thanks, Tom, for responding.

I agree it's a good sign.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2015, 12:35:41 PM »
Interesting choice of architect. Look forward to seeing their stuff. One question I have is the mention that the course is "sandy and elevated". Given the first course was sand capped, I'm surprised that the ground for the second course is sandy, particularly the upper portion.

Niall

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2015, 01:34:59 PM »
Niall,

as far as I am aware the first course was built on land that was a sandy base with a layer of richer clay loam from years of farming overlying it. The soils in that area are generally very sandy.

Jon

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2015, 03:05:19 PM »
I think Thad and Brandon will do a fabulous job! I'm crazy about the changes at Wexford and Old Tabby. They have been tweaking Tralee too, I think.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2015, 09:54:02 AM »
Jon

You could be right but I thought they got all the sand out of one source, that being the pit in front of the 13th tee. Judging by the fields that were used as car parks during the Scottish Open I suspect the ground will be more of the same as course 1 which means they won't be dealing with a nice sandy site.

Niall

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2015, 08:47:05 AM »
I find the architecture choice a bit curious for a second course after a well received first course.

I have enormous respect for the King, both the man and the brand.

Given that Parsinen is heavily involved in the design, and that this is not his first rodeo, I wonder why he would break away from his model of using up and coming architects, and use one's name that while very well known, has not been associated with a high % of top designs.
I understand that the architects involved are highly talented and that the results should/could be outstanding, it just seems to me that Palmer's name could be a liability in architecture, even though it is an asset in nearly every other promotional endeavor.

perhaps they are shooting for a wider audience than architectural afficionados by using a more mainstream name, but it seems to me the mainstream isn't attracted to golf in northern Scotland in general, and if so, for only one "trip of a lifetime"

Based on Parsinen's track record, involvement and Palmer's evidently talented associates, I do think the course will be well done and I hope it's the crown jewel in the Palmer crown.
Just seems more upside for Mr. Palmer than Mr. Parsinen, as crazy as that sounds.

One does have to wonder what effect such a branding play (a la the 80's and 90's and early 2000's) may have on the future of young talented architects being able to be hired on their own design talents and merits in an already brutal field.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 08:52:11 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2015, 09:22:02 AM »
Jeff - I think that is the question everyone has been asking... I think we may have found the answer -- read our updated story.

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Arnold-Palmer-Design-hired-to-create-second-links-course-at-Castle-Stuart/3373/Default.aspx#.VRASblwZ2QI
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Graham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2015, 10:07:06 AM »
Any ideas if Parsinen and or Castle Stuart have been experiencing financial difficulties? Or is it more a case of they need Palmer's investment to fund further developments?

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2015, 10:38:50 AM »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2015, 11:16:40 AM »
"Any ideas if Parsinen and or Castle Stuart have been experiencing financial difficulties?"

Michael G. -

I am quite sure this is not the case.

DT

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2015, 05:25:00 PM »
perhaps they are shooting for a wider audience than architectural afficionados by using a more mainstream name, but it seems to me the mainstream isn't attracted to golf in northern Scotland in general, and if so, for only one "trip of a lifetime"

Jeff W. -

I think Castle Stuart is aiming for a much wider audience than the once in a lifetime visitor. Given CS is almost within walking distance of Inverness Airport, the resort (when the 2nd course and accommodations are completed, that is what it will be) is easily accessible from London, Manchester, Dublin and a couple of cities on the continent. The CS website clearly states that Gleneagles and Turnberry are their business models.  

From the CS website:

As Turnberry is to Ayrshire and Gleneagles is to Perthshire, Castle Stuart has been conceived to be for the Highlands - a beacon reaching out to golfers throughout the world.

It is not hard to imagine companies entertaining clients at CS for a weekend of golf in the Highlands, just as they have been taking clients to the Highlands to hunt deer and shoot grouse for decades.

DT

« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 05:32:05 PM by David_Tepper »

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2015, 08:11:43 AM »


There is no way to overestimate the staying power of AP !   It is a fact though that even icons are mortal , and knowing the fierce competitive nature of the man , would expect this to be one of his best works.  He loves the country and the golf heritage and no doubt sees a great opportunity here. Best of luck to,the "king" and his mates .

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2018, 04:15:48 PM »
All the chat about Coul Links - any updates on this course?


Side note: Apologies for the quick posts all in a row. Guess I just have GCA on the mind!!

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2018, 05:35:18 PM »
As I understand it, Mark is still looking for further investment.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2019, 04:04:39 AM »
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1872459/plans-seek-approval-for-new-championship-golf-course-at-castle-stuart/



Plans seek approval for new Championship golf course at Castle Stuart
by Michelle Henderson
October 24, 2019





A new championship golf course for one of Scotland’s exclusive clubs is being recommended for approval – with an economic boom being predicted.


Owners of the Castle Stuart course near Nairn, which has played host to the Scottish Open four times, have submitted a renewed application for a second course at the site.


Previous plans were approved by Highland Council in 2016, with a view to completing the extension by 2020.


The proposal had the support of US golfing great Arnold Palmer, who at the time had a business empire in golf course design and leisurewear worth more than $700m.


He visited Castle Stuart in 2015 to survey the terrain and meet course staff, aiming to put his stamp on what he envisaged the new course should look like, but died in 2016.


Now the club is aiming to get the development back on track.


Highland Council’ south planning applications committee will consider the new scheme next week.


Planning officials have recommended approval, subject to conditions, with a report stating: “The golf course development will be similar in size and scale to the existing championship course and will be defined by the foreshore of the Inner Moray Firth and Castle Stuart Bay, extending northwards to incorporate Castle Stuart as a focal point.


“The remainder of the proposed course extends northeast toward the existing course providing easy access between the two courses and will be served by the existing main vehicular access, car park and club house.


“The form of the course will be similar to the existing in terms of vegetation and layout and will employ many of the construction techniques learned from the processes involved in the development of the first course.


“The proposal was the subject of the council’s pre application consultation process for major developments in June 2019 where general support for the principle and scope of the development was given.


“The development of the second championship golf course at Castle Stuart is to be welcomed and will be of economic benefit to the area enhancing a well established existing facility.”


The report adds: “The key environmental issues associated with this development are similar to those of the first course and the applicant has demonstrated through construction and operation of the existing course an understanding of the need to ensure that the habitat, flora and fauna of the area is protected in accordance with the relevant regulations and guidance.


“The course will provide an opportunity to expand existing facilities with the potential to encourage tourists to the area.


The Inner Moray Firth and Castle Stuart Bay are important wetlands supporting ‘nationally scarce plants’ and supporting up to 20,000 waterfowl as an important over wintering and roosting site.


Earlier this year, the club said it was in discussions with a number of potential investors, including the Arnold Palmer Group.


Inverness councillor Ken Gowans said: “I think one thing we do need to do is increase the visitor facilities and the opportunities to promote tourism.


“Castle Stuart has been very successful in the past, in fact one of the jewels in the tourism crown. It has hosted many events and competitions and provided a great amount of economic stimulus for the area as well.”

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2019, 06:21:15 AM »
First line of the P&J article “....one of Scotland’s most exclusive clubs ....”? Exclusive .... pay-n-play?
Atb



Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2019, 06:39:45 AM »
Same designers?

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2019, 09:08:06 AM »
First line of the P&J article “....one of Scotland’s most exclusive clubs ....”? Exclusive .... pay-n-play?
Atb



Advertisers often mistake 'high end' for 'exclusive'  ;)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2019, 11:25:58 AM »
Same designers?


Never mind that -- who OWNS Castle Stuart now and is seeking permission?  The article says nothing about Mark Parsinen's passing.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2019, 02:16:34 PM »
Same designers?


Never mind that -- who OWNS Castle Stuart now and is seeking permission?  The article says nothing about Mark Parsinen's passing.


Mark didn't own 100 percent of Castle Stuart so I'm wondering if his estate sold his position? The managing partner is Grant Sword who owns a number of hotels in Scotland. 


The article said they are still looking for investors.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Arnold Palmer to Build Second Course at Castle Stuart
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2019, 02:32:21 PM »
My understanding is the Parsinen family still holds their ownership interest. Mark Parsinen's son-in-law is representing the family's interest in the project.   

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0

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