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DFarron

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Sleeper in San Diego?
« on: March 19, 2015, 02:01:31 PM »
Going to San Diego the end of April to visit a freind. Looking for a solid club/course to play near Del Mar. Don't want to hassle with Torrey Pines. San Diego CC? Pauma Valley?


Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2015, 02:04:15 PM »
Not "near Del Mar", but Barona Creek is the only public course in the area that I have any interest in playing again.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

David_Tepper

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Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2015, 02:28:31 PM »
I would not say Pauma Valley is near Del Mar. In fact, I would not say Pauma Valley is near anything. ;)  But it is a course worth playing and seeing.  

Frank Sekulic

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2015, 03:32:59 PM »
Pauma Valley is a very nice course but, it is nowhere near Del Mar. The only public courses worth playing are either Barona or Maderas, outside of that the pickings are slim.

Joshua Pettit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2015, 03:34:19 PM »
Rancho Santa Fe is your best bet if you can manage access, and it's fairly close to Del Mar.  

The sad state of San Diego golf has been discussed here before.  Arguably the worst of any major metropolitan area in The States.  And considering the climate that's a damn shame.

"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2015, 03:57:26 PM »
As a San Diego resident, I would agree that we are pretty pathetic in terms of golf choices.

Barona and Maderas are both fun, solid public courses. The Grand, a middle of the road Fazio design, is in Del Mar, so that might make the most logistical sense, but is pricey. I would consider La Jolla CC, if you have access, which is a very cool club that has great views and some pretty cool arch features.

I would say Pauma is quite a haul from Del Mar. Maybe close to an hour and  half. It's a beautiful spot and one of RTJ's best efforts, but I'm not so sure it's worth the hassle from Del Mar.

RSFGC is a pretty spot, and about 20 mins from Del Mar. But there has been alot of "wreakovation" there that really takes away from the experience.

SDCC is definitely worth the visit. It would be about 30 mins from Del Mar. They have some of the best conditioned fws I've ever seen.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

DFarron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2015, 05:13:31 PM »
How about Del Mar Country Club?

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2015, 05:43:38 PM »
Where to play in San Diego? This comes up at least once a year so I made a handy guide. Of course the privates are all very good but I can't help you out there. If you stay at the Rancho Santa Fe Inn or Hotel Valencia you can access the privates in Rancho Santa Fe; pricey but worth it. They can get you on Rancho Santa Fe CC, The Farms, Fairbanks Fanch and Del Mar CC, greens fees are over $200; I have only played RSFCC so I can't comment on the other 3. Barona Creek and Coronado Muni would be your choices on the non-private side. Balboa is close to downtown and well worth the effort also. Encinitas Ranch would be the closest to Del Mar.


Resorts:

Barona Creek     619-387-7018
     This is the must play course in the San Diego area. Just a 30 minute drive from downtown, Todd Eckenrode’s creation in Wild Cat Canyon offers a thrill for every class of golfer. The course features strategic bunkering, scattered at different distances, through the wide fairways. Firm and fast conditions put a premium on attacking from the correct angles to the highly contoured greens. Hotel and Casino on site.

Torrey Pines     (reservations) 619-570-1234
     South:  The host for the 2008 US Open is set up as a test of the modern game. Even from the white tees (6,880) this course plays long. Rees improved the 3 holes he moved to the canyon’s edge (3, 4&14) but 18 double plateau greens are a bit repetitive. Green conditions now finally justify the $180-$220 rate.
     North: The proposed redesign has been postponed, here’s your chance to play what could be William Francis Bell’s best work. Better use of terrain, nicely contoured set of pushup greens, surely the more scenic of the two courses.
     Golfers can show up as early as they want to line up for the morning’s first tee times which begin at 7:00am (cars line up in the parking lot on weekends, during the week you place your golf bag in line in front of the starters booth on the balcony); singles stand a decent chance of getting off through the waiting list in the afternoon.

Carlton Oaks     619-448-4500
     This Perry Dye redesign has all the “dye-abolical” trademarks: waste areas, pot bunkers, bulk headed water hazards and many greens that slope away in the back. At 7,225 75.2/146from the tips it’s definitely the second toughest layout in the County. Lots of fun from the blue or white tees though. Hotel on site.

The Grand Golf Club     858-792-6200
     The only Fazio course in San Diego County; All golfers really want is a thrill; this course comes up short here. Very playable and takes a great picture, but the tea cups at Disney Land are more exciting than this place. Must stay at the Resort to play here now.

La Costa     760-438-9111

Champions Course (formerly the North)
     Fans of Dick Wilson will be upset that it is impossible to play the original Tournament Course. A recent redesign by Passcusso, Pate and Brauer makes it difficult to mix the two dissimilar grassing schemes. The course contains the original front nine and nine additional holes across the street.

South Course
     Contains the back nine of the original course and nine holes that are really shoehorned in. They have just completed a redesign here too.

Sycuan     800-457-5568
     There are two regulation 18 hole courses Willow Glen and Oak Glen. Willow is the more interesting layout with numerous doglegs, strategic bunkering and angled greens. Oak Glen is the more sporty course. Also has an 18 hole par 3 course. A good example of what Ted Robison was capable of before his “dark period”.

San Vicente Inn and GC     760-789-3477

     This resort in the mountains is a good example of the “good Ted Robinson”; not a waterscape in sight! Close to Barona if you’re in the area.

Warner Springs Ranch     760-782-4270
     High desert course is both scenic and challenging. The remote atmosphere makes this course special; resort rooms have no TV or phones! A little over an hour from downtown but very close to Barona. The Course is now closed and hopes to reopen soon!


Municipal:

Coronado     619-435-3121
     Jack Daray designed San Diego’s “Hidden Gem”, built on fill dredged from the harbor in the 1957, it has 4 holes that play along Glorietta Bay. Subtle doglegs test driving ability, the pushup greens punish poor iron play, wind is often a factor. At $30/weekday and $35/weekend for everyone, it’s the best deal in town.

Balboa Park     (reservations)  619-570-1234
     Built in 1918 the course originally had oiled sand greens and dirt fairways. William Park Bell supervised the addition of irrigation via a WPA project in 1938.  This short (6,281) trip out through the canyons and back across the mesa has remained a tough track to score on. Sam Snead’s course record 60, shot here while in the Navy in WWII, still stands. Views of downtown and the Coronado Islands, walkups should have no trouble playing here.

Encinitas Ranch     760-944-1936
     Located ten minutes north of Torrey Pines and five minutes south of Legoland this is an enjoyable and reasonably priced daily fee course. Wide open front nine is complemented by the canyons on the back. Built on the site of a former flower ranch by Cary Bickler, conditions are usually good.

Tecolote Canyon     858-279-1600
     The only Robert Trent Jones course in San Diego County, this is a fun executive course. There are four 300 yard holes where you can “let the big dog eat”. The remaining par 3’s all have interestingly contoured greens. Close to Mission Bay, a round here should take only 3 hours.

Sail Ho!     619-222-4653
     This 9 hole par 3 course was the original site of A G Spaulding’s San Diego CC. It served as golf course for the Navy’s recruits at the now defunct Navy Training Center. A complete redesign has made it an interesting way to spend an hour; minutes away from the Airport.

CCFAD’s:

Maderas CC     858-451-8100
     Built on a hilly site this course promises the thrilling downhill holes off the bat, the key here is how much fun the uphill holes are. Neal Meagher’s perfect mix off unique green sites are worth the price of admission alone. Soon to go private when enough memberships are sold.

Riverwalk     619-296-4653
     Built over the old Stardust CC, this course’s three nines are the perfect example of the Ted Robison “dark period”. Located in the heart of Mission Valley, it is convenient to those staying at Hotel Circle.


Salt Creek, formerly The Auld Course     619-482-4666
     Although built to sell houses you would find it hard to hit one from the golf course. Die hard walkers beware, you must ride here. Cary Bickler and John Cook have crafted some fine holes though, well worth a look if you’re in the South Bay area.

Aviara     760-603-6900
     This Arnold Palmer design has the first and 18th holes playing alongside Batitiquos Lagoon; the remainder of the holes wind through housing. If you’re a big fan of highly landscaped par3’s, this course is for you; if not save on the high fees for a round somewhere else.

Privates:

Rancho Santa Fe CC
     Don’t pass up an opportunity to play here. Max Behr’s 1929 layout got the highest Doak rating in San Diego County (5). Without a doubt, this is the best of the private clubs. The Rancho Santa Fe Inn allows guests to play here unescorted after 1:00pm.

San Diego CC
     Thanks to a presentation by some GCA’ers the Club has finally embraced its 1921 Willie Watson heritage. For many years it was touted as a Billy Bell design; surely he did work here over the years but the greens are larger than the ones he typically built. Excellent topography for golf with rolling hills and some canyons in play. Some of the deepest bunkers in San Diego County compliment the fine putting greens.

La Jolla CC
     The two canyon holes are spectacular; there are several other unique holes here, built by William Park Bell in 1927.

Tijuana CC
     The course claims a MacKenzie heritage, but it sure looks like a William Park Bell to me; possibly during his relationship with Tillinghast. Close enough to the border to take the trolley down and hop in a cab for the short journey to the golf course; public access allowed.

Pauma Valley
     The only Robert Trent Jones Sr. course in San Diego County is in the high desert just past Barona; once rated within the top 20 in Ca.

Military:

Marine Memorial   GC, Camp Pendleton     760-725-4704
     Set within the expansive Marine base this course by William Francis Bell occupies a peaceful and secluded river valley 50 minutes from downtown. Somewhat shaggy conditioning here doesn’t detract from the enjoyment. Open to the public during the week.

Miramar, Memorial GC     858-577-4155
     Jack Daray shows how to turn a flat parcel of land into an interesting golf course at the old Top Gun base. Now a Marine Corp Air Station it has some of the best conditioned greens in the County; wind and FA-18’s are always a factor here. Also open to the public.

Sea & Air GC     619-545-9659
      Located on North Island Naval Air Station it is a tale of two nines, the front nine was recently redesigned to make play safer; several new holes were added greatly improving it. The back nine weaves through sand dunes with 3 holes playing right along the beach next to the Hotel Del Coronado. The runway splits the back nine and you’ll have an opportunity to see many types of Military Aircraft practicing their touch and goes. You need proper ID to access the base.

Admiral Baker GC     619-487-0010

North Course
     This Jack Daray design winds through steep canyons. A recent redesign has greatly improved the quality of the putting greens. A good test that has been is good condition lately.

South Course
     This is a short course well suited to beginners. Both courses are open to the public.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 05:56:11 PM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2015, 05:54:45 PM »
Not "near Del Mar", but Barona Creek is the only public course in the area that I have any interest in playing again.

I second this.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2015, 06:00:44 PM »
Pete L. -

Thanks for posting your comprehensive guide to San Diego golf.

While the general location of Pauma Valley may be described as "high desert," the course itself (and the community that surrounds it) does not appear in any way to be characteristic of the desert courses with which I am familiar. But then again, I have never been to Palm Springs. ;)

http://www.paumavalleygolf.com/

DT    

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2015, 06:13:46 PM »
Very true, driving in you would expect a rustic course with sandy waste areas. In actual fact the place is wall to wall turf, even the drainage canal in play on the front nine is completely turfed. There are also several communal lawns for the residents that are about as big as two parallel par 4 holes. I commented on the cost to irrigate them last year and the manager indicated that with the current drought they may have to be eliminated.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2015, 10:55:09 PM »
How about Del Mar Country Club?

For heaven's sake, no.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2015, 03:02:41 AM »
I used to play Encinitas Ranch which is near Del Mar and is public and not too expensive. Very fun to play with long distance ocean views and quick greens.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

DFarron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2015, 12:05:40 PM »
Pete-Thanks for the run down, that was awesome. Have decided to try Rancho Santa Fe, Barona or SDCC. I may even endure the hassle to play Torrey Pines, I don't get to San Diego that often.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2015, 04:59:32 PM »
Rancho Santa Fe and La Jolla hosted the Cal Am a few years ago with RSFCC hosting the match play segment, after it started rotating through out the State when Pebble Beach opted out; so it is a stern test from the tips. Although they have done some stupid things like underground the creek that runs down the middle of the course, there is still a lot of Max Behr's architecture on display.

Barona hosted the nationwide Tour Championship several years ago and is always a joy to play. Only 30 minutes from downtown and they do serve beer on the front nine now!

SDCC is a really solid course that doesn't get a lot of press; #192 in Golf Week Classic it is a very good layout; check out the Billy Casper memorabilia is the Clubhouse.

Any of those 3 will be a fine day's golf!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Jim Eder

Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2015, 05:41:12 PM »
DFarron,

I just love San Diego CC. That is my personal fave. There is some land movement, the greens are usually perfect, and the bunkering is very good. Here is an excellent photo tour of the course.  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50684.0.html

RSF and Barona are also terrific and Torrey is Torrey (I actually like it a lot).

Pete is exactly correct, any of those are a fine way to spend a day.

Enjoy your visit.

AChao

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2015, 02:44:57 AM »
Del Mar CC, The Farms, The Bridges, The Grand, and Rancho Santa Fe CC are all near Del Mar.

Ivan Lipko

Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 03:24:12 AM »
Maderas and Barona Creek.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 06:31:05 PM »
I'm in San Diego in November, no golf though, but good restaurants keenly sought!
Cave Nil Vino

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2015, 06:38:11 PM »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2015, 01:19:51 AM »
Gentlemen,

No secret I am a huge fan of both Barona Creek (Todd Eckenrode) and Maderas (by our own Neal Meagher) - with honorable mention to Carlton Oaks for a bit of retro-Pete Dye.

Torrey South is an overrated, overpriced, six hour death march you wouldn't give a second look if the nude beach wasn't right below the 4th hole. If you're determined to venture to La Jolla for golf, conditioning aside, Torrey North is elegant, charming and delightful.

But the query is for a sleeper and I've got one. Some years back, Emperor Tommy summoned me to San Diego for a little go-round - and when the monarch sends for you, well ya gotta go.

We drove north a ways and Tommy told me to look for a sign reading Crosby National Golf Club. WTF? I went to school with the Crosby clan and Hillsborough is a long way from San Diego - putting aside the name was so cheesy I wanted to laugh. It was like Kathryn decided to sell the name to some developer to build a shit golf course in the middle of a housing project.

I ought to have known by then that Naccarato is never wrong - and if he says the track is worth playing, it is best to shut up and drive. The course is billed as a Couples design, but I'm betting Hookah Fred couldn't find Crosby National if he had Google Maps and a compass. However, this Schmidt and Curley layout hits all the notes right on the screws. The green complexes are unfailingly interesting and each hole has at least once element that made me stop and take notice.

Tommy was out there taking pictures for Brian Schmidt, so we really took our time with each hole. I'm not sure why this course gets overlooked in the San Diego area when there is so much marginal, overpriced schlock around. I'm not saying Crosby National made my heart sing like Julie Andrews, but I've been back twice and the novelty did not wear off. I'll even go so far as to call it a hidden gem of sorts.

  

      
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 09:49:23 AM by Gib Papazian »

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 10:52:07 AM »
In the interest of full disclosure I don't believe Gib has actually played the South since the Reesdesign. Knowing that a US Open style venue would take longer to play the City instituted 10 minute tee time intervals on the South. Rarely does play bog down there and rounds usually take 4.5 hours. So the 6 hour death march comment is totally inaccurate. The North however still has 7 minute intervals and round there are always 5 hours or greater.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

DFarron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2015, 10:55:16 AM »
Gentlemen,

No secret I am a huge fan of both Barona Creek (Todd Eckenrode) and Maderas (by our own Neal Meagher) - with honorable mention to Carlton Oaks for a bit of retro-Pete Dye.

Torrey South is an overrated, overpriced, six hour death march you wouldn't give a second look if the nude beach wasn't right below the 4th hole. If you're determined to venture to La Jolla for golf, conditioning aside, Torrey North is elegant, charming and delightful.

But the query is for a sleeper and I've got one. Some years back, Emperor Tommy summoned me to San Diego for a little go-round - and when the monarch sends for you, well ya gotta go.

We drove north a ways and Tommy told me to look for a sign reading Crosby National Golf Club. WTF? I went to school with the Crosby clan and Hillsborough is a long way from San Diego - putting aside the name was so cheesy I wanted to laugh. It was like Kathryn decided to sell the name to some developer to build a shit golf course in the middle of a housing project.

I ought to have known by then that Naccarato is never wrong - and if he says the track is worth playing, it is best to shut up and drive. The course is billed as a Couples design, but I'm betting Hookah Fred couldn't find Crosby National if he had Google Maps and a compass. However, this Schmidt and Curley layout hits all the notes right on the screws. The green complexes are unfailingly interesting and each hole has at least once element that made me stop and take notice.

Tommy was out there taking pictures for Brian Schmidt, so we really took our time with each hole. I'm not sure why this course gets overlooked in the San Diego area when there is so much marginal, overpriced schlock around. I'm not saying Crosby National made my heart sing like Julie Andrews, but I've been back twice and the novelty did not wear off. I'll even go so far as to call it a hidden gem of sorts.

  

      

Hmmm...just when I had my mind made up lol!

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2015, 11:03:04 AM »
Gentlemen,

...........Maderas (by our own Neal Meagher) - .....

     

Shouldn't this more properly be credited to Pascuzzo-Graves?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sleeper in San Diego?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2015, 01:44:22 PM »
Jeff,

I believe Uncle Bob was long retired by the time Neal drew up Maderas (like we should give Johnny Miller credit?) and pretending  Damian “666” Pascuzzo designed the golf course is like giving credit to Al Gore for inventing the internet. No more than Gary Roger Baird ought to get props for Barona instead of Todd.

Pete,

In the interest o full disclosure, the Armenian has played the Reesified permutation of Torrey South three times, the first time right before the 2008 U.S. Open. On all three go-rounds - after getting my wallet lightened - play crawled along at the pace of an Arab caravan. I don’t see the allure and putting aside the scenery and weather, the course is a Doak 5 at best. How many truly inspiring holes are on the golf course? Maybe #3, 4 and 14?

Imagine the bunkering and geometry of Barona or the putting surfaces of Maderas on that piece of property. Now you’ve got something of real merit. I’ll go a step further and say if they’d get off their asses and restore the North Course, the architecture would put the South to shame.

I played 128 holes at Sycuan last year (the old Singing Hills GC) and though neither course is a prize winner (the par-3 course is also decent), there are a lot of unique, quirky holes. For entertainment value, I give it reasonably high marks. I still miss the original Singing Hills (before the 1983? floods), but laying out golf courses in a pair of box canyons has its risks.

Riverwalk (originally Stardust GC) is a steaming pile of pig shit. I’ve given it a fair chance more than once and it's one of those golf courses that plays like an architect took a bunch of unrelated design elements, put them in a blender and poured it out randomly on a mud plain. Even the cart girl is ugly.

Pete, I notice nobody mentioned Cottonwood. I won my first junior tournament there on the Monte Vista course (I think the other one was called Ivanhoe) during the Nixon Administration and wonder if it is worth seeing. I drove by it in a rush last year, but did not have time to stop in. It looked a little frayed around the edges, but I’d like to play it 40-odd years later unless it will shatter my fond memory.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 01:53:14 PM by Gib Papazian »

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