[Jerry Kluger]

It was not just the sand that was left after clearing - they had to bring large amounts of additional sand.

[Howard Riefs]

Do you have thoughts on Juliette Falls? It's a course in the middle of nowhere designed by a guy nobody has ever heard of, but it consistently ranks in the Top 20 for Florida publics. I'd love to know more before I make the drive to the Ocala area.

I played JF in December while visiting my parents in The Villages. Unless you find yourself within a 30 mile radius, I wouldn't go out of your way to play it. Some good holes. Some head scratchers and three waterfalls. Solid conditioning.

[Chris Mavros]

In no particular order

The Dye Preserve
Waldorf Astoria
PGA National - Championship
PGA National - Palmer
Grand Cypress - New
Mission Inn - El Campeon
Mission Inn - Las Colinas
Championsgate - International
Championsgate- National

[Jason Way]

I made it down for FL for quick golf twice this winter.  Didn't dislike any of the courses I played, so I'll list them all, but the starred ones I would play again:

Streamsong Red*
Streamsong Blue*
Biltmore Coral Gables*
Old Corkscrew
Crandon Park

Fort Myers CC was on my list too, but there was a pro tournament there the same weekend I visited.

[Bryan Izatt]

After you get by the consensus biggies at Streamsong and WW, I think Juliette Falls fits in nicely with the rest.  I like the par 3's and the par 4 eigth also comes to mind. The landscaping is nice - even the waterfall holes. There is enough elevation change to keep things interesting.  If you like the dormant brown Bermuda winter look this is the place to go.  John Sanford, the architect, seems to have been in Egypt doing resorts and also the far east.  And, interestingly, collaborated with Nicklaus on Ferry Point.

I'm surprised that more haven't found the Conservatory at Hammock Dunes.  It's much better in my view than the more famous Ocean Hammock.  It may be manufactured but they did a terrific job of createing micro movement in the fairways and the greens were challenging and interesting.

Old Corkscrew has been discussed on here before.  Some hate it and some find it a challenge.  No doubt it is tough for any caliber of player.  A couple of weeks ago I was paired with two singles, both fresh from the northern states and as a result both rusty in their golf games.  One of them had done his research and was looking for the course to be really challenging.  After four holes he was down 8 balls - I asked him whether it was as difficult as he expected.  He said he thought it was fair enough, he was just rusty.  As we walked off the 18th I asked him again whether he thought it was challenging ( by then he was down more than a dozen balls).  He was still adamant that it was a fair test and that it was just his rusty game. I think he was just a masochist.  


  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I think Park Ridge (Case) in Lake Worth is worth a visit:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28386.0.html

As mentioned, Osprey Point is another Case course and is getting good reviews:


http://www.pbcgov.com/parks/sports/golf/ospreypoint/

[JBovay]

These lists put my own to shame.

I grew up in north Florida and have played nearly 50 public courses in the state, although I've only played a negligible number of rounds and courses there since 2004. In the parts of the state far from the coast, the "stereotypical" Florida course described by JNC is nonexistent; in fact, I was always puzzled when a member of this site threw out that term without clarifying what they meant.

There are only two or three public courses in Florida that I'd really like to play again.

TPC Sawgrass
El Diablo (NLE) - a cheap, thought-provoking tribute to Pine Valley that unfortunately went to seed last year
Amelia Island Oak Marsh - a subtle Dye course that always reminded me of (pictures and video of) Harbour Town

I had put Grand Cypress New in this category until I played the Old Course. It's likely that, for those who have seen PV and Harbour Town, the other two courses would not be of significant interest either.

I do have a few comments on other courses listed by folks in this thread.

Cleveland Heights - Surprised to see all the love. My father grew up there and loved it, but I don't think he's been back in decades, since his father joined a local private club. Consequently, I have driven by but never played. Is there much Flynn left there? (Is there much left on any course without immaculate maintenance and care, after 85 years?) Was there much of it in the early '70s, when my father was playing there? Is it worth a look for an out-of-state visitor? Also, those original opening and closing holes coming up and down from the Yacht Club must have been pretty stout, back in the day. (I knew that the Yacht Club had been the clubhouse, but did not know that the golf holes went through what is now the neighborhood.)

Palatka - I was standing on the practice green when I found out that Payne Stewart had died. Back then, there was little memorable or fun about the course. But I'm not surprised that Bobby Weed has transformed it into something special, given how much I love his Ross-torations at Timuquana and UF, and how much I like his original work at the World Golf Village and Amelia Island.

World Woods Pine Barrens - Admittedly, I have only seen the front nine. This was because our round there was intolerably slow and it seemed to me, after playing Rolling Oaks about 10 times in tournaments, that the courses were identical except for the contrivance of large waste areas in the rough at Pine Barrens. Perhaps the increased ruggedness referenced by JNC has improved the course over the last decade, but I am not likely to find out in person.

PGA Golf Club South/Wanamaker - My memories are only vague, but I do recall enjoying the six-hole pitch-and-putt more than this one. And the short course was not that good, anyway.

JB

[Adam Clayman]

Just in case no one else has done so, those that are reporting that the Dunes at Seville is closed, are in err.

The El Diablo is closed, however. And would easily have made this list. For sure ahead of Brooksville cc.

[Andy Hughes]

"Do you have thoughts on Juliette Falls? It's a course in the middle of nowhere designed by a guy nobody has ever heard of, but it consistently ranks in the Top 20 for Florida publics. I'd love to know more before I make the drive to the Ocala area."

JNC, played there ~ 3 years ago. I would not make a special trip from Sarasota (that's where you are?) just for Juliette Falls. Actually, if I was up that way honestly I would prefer to spend the time playing another round at World Woods.

[Joe Bausch]

Lake Jovita is pretty good, and public (there are members and stay and play guests, but public can play anytime).  There are 36 holes.  I have a friend who lives there, and play it frequently.  They like to have the greens fast, sometimes too fast for the slopes, and each courses have two or three holes that are not very good, but otherwise a great facility.  It's basically in the middle of nowhere, but worth the drive from Tampa or Orlando.

Here are some pics of Lake Jovita North:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/LakeJovitaN/

[Kyle Harris]

Cleveland Heights.

I feel the amount of Flynn remaining is a bit understated by oral legend and "The Nature Faker." The entire second nine is, indeed, intact with the possible exception of the last green. Of the four holes highlighted in "The Nature Faker," three still exist and what is in the ground in terms of contour on the putting green remains. So the important aspects of the golf course, routing and putting greens, are still there.

The bunker presentation is largely compromised and this can be documented both through the Flynn plans and historic aerials. The biggest examples of the losses here seem to be the "island in the sand" greens on today's A-7 and B-8 and the absolutely massive cross-bunker faced on the second shot of the Par 5 A-8.

That being said, in my opinion, the course is best played if one can make the jump from C-2 to C-7, and then from C-9 to B-1, 7, 8, 9 to complete the original second nine. Additionally, C-2 should be played from the current forward tee as the original hole played as a long Par 3 from there to the present green. With this routing, the scale of the place tends to be highlighted and the experience is much less disjointed.

[JNC Lyon]

I made the trip up to Ocala today (yes, I'm still down for a long trip to see an obscure golf course) and played Ocala Golf Club. I was a big fan of the place--the course plays up, down, and, at one point in the back nine, over a large ridge that runs through the property. There was a little repetition on the par fives and the watery par threes, but there were some really phenomenal holes that stood out from the rest of the pack. In particular, I enjoyed the three hole stretch at 11 to 13, which consists of a short par three to a volcano green, a sweeping long par four that was 100% Deep South, and a short uphill par five with a devilish ridge-line green. I think Ocala would (sadly) bump the Heights off my top 10, and it was definitely worth the drive up for the day.

Bill McBride,

I've played three publics in the panhandle that I enjoyed: Camp Creek, Windswept Dunes, and Emerald Bay. Windswept Dunes had some interesting stuff, but I have a hard time remembering much of the course. Emerald Bay has typical housing course shlock, but the back nine is a pretty neat little hidden gem with a lot of variety. I especially liked the stretch down and back from the Bay on 15, 16, and 17. If you are in Destin, which is a bit starved for imaginative golf design, Emerald Bay is not a bad choice.

Camp Creek is a good course and always gets high marks from the raters (probably because the conditioning was/is excellent. But I think CC is a bit of a waste of a piece of property. The land there is absolutely dynamite, and a more talented architect likely could have come up with something much more inspiring. Granted, I played the course two times ten years ago, so I would be looking at it under a really different set of eyes now, but from what I remember it would struggle to get into my top ten. Mentally, I compare Camp Creek to something like Southern Dunes. A rater (or just your typical Florida golfer) might be wowed by Camp Creek's excellent maintenance, gorgeous clubhouse, and amazing setting and be put off be the houses, tiny clubhouse and Wal-Mart parking-lot entrance at SD. But, for my money, Southern Dunes has a lot more flair and inspiration in its design whereas Camp Creek seems a bit sterile. Southern Dunes gets my vote, but I get that many others might disagree.

[BCowan]

JNC,

   I'm glad you played Ocala.  I agree with you about the 2 par 3's with water.  Although #14 has a great green to it.   I thought the par 5's are really strong, especially #2, #4, and #13.   Now due to technology they are all half par's except #2.  What par 5's didn't you like?

[Adam Lawrence]

After you get by the consensus biggies at Streamsong and WW, I think Juliette Falls fits in nicely with the rest.  I like the par 3's and the par 4 eigth also comes to mind. The landscaping is nice - even the waterfall holes. There is enough elevation change to keep things interesting.  If you like the dormant brown Bermuda winter look this is the place to go.  John Sanford, the architect, seems to have been in Egypt doing resorts and also the far east.  And, interestingly, collaborated with Nicklaus on Ferry Point.
  

John is an ex Nicklaus guy who has been out on his own for quite a long time. He was brought in to help out at Ferry Point because of his experience with landfill projects -- one of his bigger deals was the Granite Links course in Boston, which was created as part of the Big Dig tunnel project.

[JNC Lyon]

JNC,

   I'm glad you played Ocala.  I agree with you about the 2 par 3's with water.  Although #14 has a great green to it.   I thought the par 5's are really strong, especially #2, #4, and #13.   Now due to technology they are all half par's except #2.  What par 5's didn't you like?

I did not dislike any of the par fives specifically. I enjoyed each of the ones you listed, especially the uphill ones at 2 and 13. See my first post again, where I highlight the 13th green as being a favorite moment of the course. I also enjoyed 17 individually, which has a wicked green. My problem with the fives is not their individual merits but their collective lack of variety. 4, 7, and 17 are all downhill straightaway holes within the same 30-yard range. 13 is a totally different look than those three, but it should play about the same distance because it is uphill not downhill. The only one that plays longer is 2, which runs on the same plane as 4, 7, and 17 but is uphill rather than downhill. I would have liked to see a little more variety in distance and in look, especially with 5 par fives rather than the usual 4.

[Bill_McBride]

I made the trip up to Ocala today (yes, I'm still down for a long trip to see an obscure golf course) and played Ocala Golf Club. I was a big fan of the place--the course plays up, down, and, at one point in the back nine, over a large ridge that runs through the property. There was a little repetition on the par fives and the watery par threes, but there were some really phenomenal holes that stood out from the rest of the pack. In particular, I enjoyed the three hole stretch at 11 to 13, which consists of a short par three to a volcano green, a sweeping long par four that was 100% Deep South, and a short uphill par five with a devilish ridge-line green. I think Ocala would (sadly) bump the Heights off my top 10, and it was definitely worth the drive up for the day.

Bill McBride,

I've played three publics in the panhandle that I enjoyed: Camp Creek, Windswept Dunes, and Emerald Bay. Windswept Dunes had some interesting stuff, but I have a hard time remembering much of the course. Emerald Bay has typical housing course shlock, but the back nine is a pretty neat little hidden gem with a lot of variety. I especially liked the stretch down and back from the Bay on 15, 16, and 17. If you are in Destin, which is a bit starved for imaginative golf design, Emerald Bay is not a bad choice.

Camp Creek is a good course and always gets high marks from the raters (probably because the conditioning was/is excellent. But I think CC is a bit of a waste of a piece of property. The land there is absolutely dynamite, and a more talented architect likely could have come up with something much more inspiring. Granted, I played the course two times ten years ago, so I would be looking at it under a really different set of eyes now, but from what I remember it would struggle to get into my top ten. Mentally, I compare Camp Creek to something like Southern Dunes. A rater (or just your typical Florida golfer) might be wowed by Camp Creek's excellent maintenance, gorgeous clubhouse, and amazing setting and be put off be the houses, tiny clubhouse and Wal-Mart parking-lot entrance at SD. But, for my money, Southern Dunes has a lot more flair and inspiration in its design whereas Camp Creek seems a bit sterile. Southern Dunes gets my vote, but I get that many others might disagree.

I agree with all those observations.  Windswept Dunes has some good individual holes but the whole is a mess because of the residential nature and a several hundred yard cart ride between every green and tee.  Sadly not many homes had been built when I played there on New Years Day a few years ago. 

The Eglin courses probably would have been more appealing to you.  There are also the Jones brothers' courses at Sandestin, Rees with Burnt Pine and Robert with the Raven, which I preferred.  That's the only place where they built side by side courses. 

[Daniel Jones]

JNC...glad to hear you enjoyed the course I grew up playing, and still enjoy 2-3 days a week. In fact, I was there yesterday as well.

I agree with your assessment, the use of the ridge that runs the entire width of the property is one of my favorite things about the course and creates some of its best holes. If you're ever up for the drive again, look me up!

[Bill Brightly]

Any of you guys ever play Sara Bay in Sarasota? Donald Ross course retored by Brian Silva. I'm playing in an event there next Monday. Kind of curious to check it out since I've never heard of it before.

Bill, this is a total thread-jack since we are talking about public courses here. But I recently played Sara Bay for the first time and posted these comments: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60545.0.html Shoot me a PM if you are in Sarasota for an extended period of time.

Jon, not a thread-jack. Just a lazy way to get a quick idea of what I might expect at Sara Bay!

I really liked it a lot. Nothing fancy, just a fun, straightforward Ross course with excellent greens. A refreshing change from the typical Florida course. Your review was spot on.

[Mark Fedeli]

I think Park Ridge (Case) in Lake Worth is worth a visit:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28386.0.html

Agreed. You hit all sorts of shots there. I think the 8th hole is one of the best in Florida.

[Cody Carroll]

Hyde Park- favorite layout in florida, would like to have seen it before they removed most fairway bunkers in the 50s for pace of play purposes
Palatka- fun quirky little course
grand cypress new
University of Florida
Ocala National
Tpc sawgrass- stadium
Tpc sawgrass- valley
brooksville cc- fun course but those greens and my putter do not agree
Amelia island- oak marsh- more or less florida's harbour town.
Amelia national- a fazio most won't like but it has grown on me the more I play, and the greens are some of the most undulating and smoothest in town.

honorable mention- lake jovita north, eagle creek golf club orlando, pga golf club dye, ponte vedra lagoon( never played ocean)

[Anthony Gholz]

As context:  My father (32 index) and I (11.2) played Southern Dunes and Celebration last week.  We've played them along with Championsgate, Copperhead, and the Disney courses the last few years, including the Dye course that was plowed under a few years back.  We've also attended Arnold's tournament at Bay Hill for 15+/- years.  That's the extent of my Florida course on-site knowledge.

The Southern Dunes greens were not in as good shape as previous years, but the course was just as much fun for both of us as in the past.  I play from one set down from the back tees and Dad (94) plays the most forward set of tees so I get to see how the course plays from a wide difference in yardage.  What I think is good about Smyer's design is that Dad has a challenge from his forward tees and not just wide open flat fairway for miles. 

The Jones haters will have a problem with this, but Celebration is also a fun course for both of us with bunkers on first and second shots often in the middle of the fairways so that all group of golfers need to make decisions and not just hit as far as possible down the center. The two 9-hole loops in alternate directions certainly bring the Florida wind into play.  Whether you give Jr most of the credit or Sr because "I taught them everything they know" I would recommend Celebration just below Southern Dunes for double digit handicaps playing from different tees.

Anthony

[Roger Wolfe]

We took a trip to Ocala/Brooksville area last year.  Played WW and Black Diamond which were good.  We were really surprised and actually moved an entire day back to Juliette Falls.  Regret missing out on Ocala... here it is a hidden gem as well.

[Jon Cavalier]

1. Streamsong Blue
2. Streamsong Red
3. TPC Sawgrass Stadium
4. Doral Blue
5. TPC Sawgrass Valleys
6. Orange County National Panther Lake
7. Orange County National Crooked Cat
Edit: 7a. Bay Hill (not sure that's really public)
8. Victoria Hills
9. Grand Cypress New
10. World Woods Pine Barrens

[BCowan]

Played Palatka GC yest.  All I can say is wow what a fun track.  It has many, many strong holes.  It shows one what can be accomplished with 100 acres of land.

[John Foley]

Where is the love for Orange County National & Southern Dunes??


Hit both up in a recent swing it was been a long time since I had been to Southern Dunes. The recent greens redo appears to have gone very well. The housing is abundant but it never felt obtrusive as it does at some places. The strategy is there and the conditions were great. So why no love?


As for OCN - for the most part there are some good holes that make you think (such as Panther Lake #5 w/ tight driving area and small green perched near some trouble & #7 a risk reward par 5 that requires a heroic 2ns shot to get on). The H2O usage wasn't over done and the grrens have some good movement.


While these are waay behind Streamsong, Grand national new & World Woods, just wondering why they get to love here?

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