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Howard Riefs

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Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« on: March 12, 2015, 01:16:09 PM »
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Josh Tarble

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2015, 01:28:24 PM »
Congrats to everyone at Philly Cricket.  32 is a very nice debut for their renovated Wissahickon course!

Also looks like Peachtree was a big jump - 8 spots.  Wonder what reasoning behind that was? (not that it's undeserving)

In regards to the modern list....

Interesting that Crooked Stick jumped and Long Cove fell by nearly the same amount. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 01:32:11 PM by Josh Tarble »
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2015, 01:38:03 PM »
Great to see Kingsley make a big jump. congratulations Mike DeVries
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Josh Tarble

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2015, 01:39:40 PM »
Quote from: Michael Wharton-Palmer on March 12, 2015, 01:38:03 PM
Great to see Kingsley make a big jump. congratulations Mike DeVries

Definitely great news for Kingsley! 

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Michael Blake

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2015, 01:49:29 PM »
Got a chuckle seeing my home course (Jeffersonville) ranked #10 in PA for public/resort you can play.


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Benjamin Litman

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2015, 01:52:33 PM »
Any insight as to why Yale tumbled from 38 to 55?
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2015, 01:55:56 PM »
Did GW stop posting the points for 101 through 200 because they are so tightly bunched? I can't remember the last year I looked, but I think everything was in the 6 range with maybe a few dipping into the upper 5. 
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Brad Tufts

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2015, 01:57:57 PM »
I had never heard of Longshore Club Park until today...Westport, CT.  #9 Public in CT now.

Ferry Point #2 public in NY...isn't it not officially open yet?
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Benjamin Litman

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2015, 02:01:12 PM »
The Ferry Point ranking caught me offguard, too, Brad. It opens on April 1, and although tee times became available yesterday, few have been booked (notwithstanding anything the Donald has said or might say to the contrary). Lofty stature for an as-yet-unopened public course in a state rife with great ones.
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JReese

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2015, 02:18:15 PM »
How about Lawsonia going from NR to 71???  Really have to make it up there this year.
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Howard Riefs

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2015, 02:20:26 PM »
Quote from: Jim_Kennedy on March 12, 2015, 01:55:56 PM
Did GW stop posting the points for 101 through 200 because they are so tightly bunched? I can't remember the last year I looked, but I think everything was in the 6 range with maybe a few dipping into the upper 5. 

Points were last posted for the 'next 100' group in 2013:

Classic:
101 -- 6.82
200 -- 6.02
http://golfweek.com/news/2013/mar/07/2013-golfweeks-best-next-best-100-classic/

Modern:
101 -- 7.77
200 -- 6.45
http://golfweek.com/news/2013/mar/07/2013-golfweeks-best-courses-next-100-modern/
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RussBaribault

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2015, 02:31:10 PM »
I must say as a resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania the list for public and resort for my state is pathetic. I just can not believe with all the land in Pennsylvania there are not more excellent public/resort courses. My guess is that PA has so many great private courses.
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Howard Riefs

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2015, 02:35:12 PM »
Quote from: Benjamin Litman on March 12, 2015, 02:01:12 PM
The Ferry Point ranking caught me offguard, too, Brad. It opens on April 1, and although tee times became available yesterday, few have been booked (notwithstanding anything the Donald has said or might say to the contrary). Lofty stature for an as-yet-unopened public course in a state rife with great ones.

Perhaps they had a Golfweek rater event last fall?
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Brad Tufts

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2015, 02:55:09 PM »
As with all rankings threads/discussions...all subjective/opinion/nobody's right or wrong/not brain surgery/not talking ISIS, etc.

Just a thought...

Maybe they did have an outing, and that's all fine and great, but many, many other courses did not do that (especially before opening to the public!) and naturally rose up the rankings to their deserved spot over several years of maturing.

This has long been a criticism of mine of the GW procedure, as the same similar thing happened with Old Mac a few years ago.  My comment is not that the course deserves its spot or not (I have not played FP, or Old Mac for that matter, so they may very well be/probably are qualified), but it reads like jury-rigging the process.  The fact that this is possible for a course to have an outing and speed up the process seems less than fair to a course that may attract a few more greens fees for being on the back end of the state ranking.  Now the back-end course is not listed due to the pre-opening course being on there.

 
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Jason Way

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2015, 03:00:55 PM »
The State Public/Resort rankings certainly do tell an interesting story of haves vs. have nots for good public access golf.  Tough to beat NC, MI, WI, CA and OR if you don't have the means or desire to join a private club (although there are not many bargain joints at the top of those lists either). 
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Tim Martin

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2015, 03:06:39 PM »
Quote from: Benjamin Litman on March 12, 2015, 01:52:33 PM
Any insight as to why Yale tumbled from 38 to 55?

That is a head scratcher considering how much has been done over the last dozen years. It dropped 20 spots since 2013.
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MCirba

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2015, 03:16:49 PM »
Quote from: RussBaribault on March 12, 2015, 02:31:10 PM
I must say as a resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania the list for public and resort for my state is pathetic. I just can not believe with all the land in Pennsylvania there are not more excellent public/resort courses. My guess is that PA has so many great private courses.

Russ,

I'm not sure where you play in PA but even though there are any number of pretty good, serviceable public golf courses across the state, the fact is that there wasn't nearly as much investment in new high-end public courses (that tend to get noticed and rated) as there were in other states during the golf building boom in the past few decades.   

That being said, it's still tough for me to see how Mystic Rock is a better golf course than Bedford Springs.   I've also played 8 of the 10 on the list (haven't yet played Olde Stonewall and Tom's Run but hope to rectify that this year) and would move some other things around but that's what makes these lists interesting in the final analysis.
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J_ Crisham

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2015, 03:59:30 PM »
Nice jump for Eastward Ho- well deserved IMO. Has to be as fun a course as you can play in the US- East coast version of Old Mac where fun golf is the name of the game.
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Bill McKinley

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2015, 06:09:49 PM »
I have go say, speaking of the Classic side, this a really good list. Lots of great courses out there when Bel Air is #74 and Indian Creek is #96. A little homerism I know, but I was surprised to see Canterbury fall for the 2nd year in a row, we were 49th in 2013 and the course has gotten unquestionably better since then (mainly tree removal and better maintenance practices).

I'll hold off on writing my stern letter to Brad Klein. (I kid, I kid  ;D ;D)
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Jud_T

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2015, 06:18:41 PM »
Although a couple of headscratchers (why did Lost Dunes, Garden City, Yale, White Bear, Pine Needles, Palmetto, Barton Hills, Old Elm, Belvedere and French Lick Ross drop so much?), a pretty good day for GCA group think.  Maybe we are having an impact after all...:


Ballyneal +1
Old Mac +1
Kinloch +2
Kingsley +8
Bandon Trails +1
Dismal Red +16
Colorado GC +3
Kapalua +12
Black Sheep +2
Hidden Creek +7
Greywalls +2
Wine Valley +14
Stonewall Old +3
Shoreacres +3
Eastward Ho +16
Mountain Lake +5
Fox Chapel +12
Lawsonia +33
Greenbriar Old White +14  
Blackwolf River -9
Whistling Straights -2
Spyglass -2
Butler -3
Bethpage Black -1
Medinah #3 -3
Congressional -8
Point'O'Woods -31
Valhalla -15
Cog Hill #4 -12
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2015, 06:23:29 PM »
Quote from: Benjamin Litman on March 12, 2015, 01:52:33 PM
Any insight as to why Yale tumbled from 38 to 55?
Quote from: Tim Martin on March 12, 2015, 03:06:39 PM
That is a head scratcher considering how much has been done over the last dozen years. It dropped 20 spots since 2013.

Here's a list of all the Classic rankings from '06 thru '15. Yale's point totals don't change much, which I think is more relevant than 'place'. Just about every other course on these lists are private in a way that Yale isn't, and they can all spend at will for restorations and renovations.

http://golfweek.com/news/golfweeks-best/classic-courses/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 08:27:05 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
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Matthew Petersen

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2015, 07:53:13 PM »
That Arizona list is a head scratcher in a number of ways.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2015, 09:14:53 PM »
Anybody have any idea how Robert Trent Jones International jumped up so far?   92 to 65 is big and I don't know that there has been a lot of news about the course.  I saw the first two President's Cups there and played several rounds, but that ranking seems really high.   What's up?
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Jason Topp

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Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2015, 09:23:09 PM »
My course (Windsong Farm) is dropping like a rock.  It was in the top 100 a couple of years ago.  I don't think the course has changed.  If anything, it has improved.

By contrast Spring Hill is rising like crazy - now well into the top 100. 

I am biased but given a choice for 10 rounds, mine wins 10-0.  It might be 99-1 for a hundred rounds.   
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BCowan

Re: Golfweek's Best Classic and Modern Courses (2015)
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2015, 09:50:30 PM »
I'd be shocked to look at this list a year from now and not see Orchard Lake CC on classic top 200 list
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