Question for you Ross experts re: Biltmore

[Jason Way]

I was out at Biltmore in Coral Gables today (really enjoyed it).  As I understand it, the course was renovated/restored 5ish years ago by Brian Silva.  I read an article or two about that work, but nothing of great detail.

Behind the 3rd green, there was a chipping area mowed to fairway height that blended seemlessly into the next tee.  There are quite a few of these transitions at Old Elm, and they look really classy to me.  I always loved the, so I was excited to so more.

I was a bit surprised and disappointed that that was the only hole that had that feature/aesthetic.  Has Biltmore always been without those transitions?  It seems like some of the other greens and tees were close enough together to make it work.  Perhaps cart paths are an issue?  Or is it just a conditioning/maintenance cost issue?

Further, for those of you who have been on more Ross courses (his designs or builds) than me, do they typically have some of these green to tee transitions, or no?

[Matt Wharton]

Jason,

Here at Carolina Golf Club we have four such transitions like you describe.  From 1 green to 2 tee, 3 green to 4 tee, 7 green to 8 tee, and 15 green to 16 tee.  Kris Spence led our restoration efforts in 2008 and the only transition we established then was from 3 green to 4 tee.  The members, like you, loved the look and feel of that feature and requested we identify other suitable areas for similar treatment.  We had Kris return and together mapped out the other three I mentioned.  I think having the feature reappear establishes a certain level of continuity.  You are correct that cart paths, bunkers, etc. play a factor in determining the feasibility of closely mowed turf from green to tee. 

[RDecker]

I believe the use of such transitions was present at Merion too.  In the old days when you tee'd it up as close to the previous hole as possible this made alot of sense, and lets face it it looks cool.

[Chris Hans]

In restoring Vesper in 2009 with Brian Silva, we added several of these areas as they existed in old aerials, drawings, notes, etc.

[Brad Tufts]

Essex CC in Mass. has several of them now, but this has only been in the last few years.

I think the biggest reason for these is proximity from green to the next tee.

Most courses/holes won't have the transitions because it doesn't make sense.

[Mark_Fine]

Jason,
I have not seen your golf course and I trust the added "transitions" look just fine.  But just so you know, there is a high probability that those are not "Ross" features.  While many Ross courses have greens and tees in close proximity, Ross did not create closely mown "chipping" areas in between them.  He also ended almost all his holes at the back edge of the green.  You can, for example, count on one hand the number of bunkers Ross built on the back side of his greens.  There are always exceptions (maybe Vesper had some but I would love to see the drawings), but bunkers or chipping areas, or any kind of manufactured or maintained hazard beyond the back edge of a Ross green is almost always a feature added by another architect.  

By the way, all those "roll offs" or closely mown chipping areas you seen around the greens at Pinehurst #2 were not original Ross features. Be clear, I am not stating whether I like them or not, I am just saying they were not Ross.
Mark

[Chris Hans]

None of the old aerials at Vesper showed any bunkers behind any greens.  Any added through the years prior to 2009 were removed during construction. The way I understand it is that Ross very rarely would add a bunker that is not visible to a player as he stood over the ball.  Not saying that's 100% accurate.
Aerials and drawings at Vesper did show the collars on the 1st and 15th connecting to the tee decks on the 2nd and 16th holes as one large closely-cut area.  In mowing down this large area of turf previously maintained at about 2", we found none of the contours had to be softened any to accommodate a reel-mower's short height-of-cut (.300-.450.) 

[Jason Way]

Thanks for the knowledge gents.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Though not a Ross course, we added many of these green-to-tee transitions during the renovation of 2008 at Colonial. Keith Foster was the master mind behind it and it works flawlessly because of the tour event, but also in the fact that C3 is a wonderful walking golf course. Greens are close to eachother. We installed these transitions on #4/5, #12/13, #14/15 and #15/16. Very cool feature.

[David_Madison]

Mid-Pines has three transitions that are a bit like this - - #3 to #4, but it's a sideways transition to the front tee; #7-#8; and #16 - #17, again a sideways transition where the back tee almost feels like part of #16's green complex.