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A Tillinghast Reef Hole?

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JimB:

--- Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 31, 2015, 02:55:49 PM ---that was before all of the fairway bunkering was done in the late 1920's, and we had been using the later date [and a 1931 aerial photo] as our benchmark for restoring the course up to now.  However the new green chairman was intrigued by Phil Young's description of the hole for the club's new history book [I'm not sure it has been published yet], and asked if we could restore it.


--- End quote ---


Tom, sorry if this is a thread drift but I was looking at Joel's photo and noticed what looks like a HHA to me on 9. Is this from the same era of photos you have been using in your restoration work and has there been discussion of restoring that feature?

Phil Young:
Jim,

Tilly made numerous changes to the course between his original 1924 design and his last visit in 1938. Every hole underwent major changes, some on more than one occasion including green  and tee relocations and almost every bunker being re-done. From that perspective SFGC was to Tilly what Pinehurst #2 was to Ross.

The 9th hole didn't have a Hell's Half Acre at any time. It did have an original large bunker as you can see in this enlargement from Tilly's original design drawing:


Notice how that bunker impacts the choices facing the player. A good drive down the right side might allow for the player to get home in two. With the two shorter bunkers pinching into the fairway well before the large bunker a player who either hits into these or otherwise doesn't hit a good drive is faced with a choice of laying up in front of the large bunker or attempting the gamble of a long carry over it. The worst option is to try to place it in the narrow fairway strip left of the bunker as this then takes away the angle of play into the green.

The large bunker was replaced with the three smaller ones in the early 30s and the three pot bunkers probably in the mid 30s. These pot bunkers actually allow for the hole to play as it was originally designed since the entire complex re-creates that same original scenario.

The pot bunkers (they would have been to the right of the three bunkers in the lower right corner) were taken out sometime after WW II and before October 24, 1949 when this aerial photograph was taken:

JimB:
Thanks for responding Phil as I had intended to address you as well in my post. I wasn't sure if that bunker complex should be called a HHA but it reminded me of one in the photo and a quick search showed some other references to one on 9 at SFGC. Anyway, you figured out what I which bunkers I was talking from that description. The strategy of the hole with the extra bunkers or larger bunker towards the left lays out nicely as you describe above and I was wondering if bringing back that aspect was discussed during the restoration work.

Phil Young:
Ron,

Yes, Kevin was correct as I was incorrect. I thought he was referring to the original aerial posted by Kyle. He circled the 4th hole as it stood in 1938. The Reef features were greatly softened, most likely in 1930-31, yet if you look carefully you can make out a centerline mound just above the top small bunker short of the green.

Jeff, thanks for pointing out that the 7th hole on the painting I referred to is today's 16th hole, with the nines having been flipped later on in your PM to me, something I had forgotten about. The original 16th hole, today's 7th, is an interesting design. Here it is enlarged from a photo of the painting:


Consider specific features that must be present for it to meet the requirements of Tilly's Reef hole concept. First the "reef" structure should be higher than the surrounding fairway with at least the backside being a downslope. The center portion can be either a mound or a combination mound with bunker/sand. The important aspect is that it continues from the lower end of the fairway at a diagonally cutting across the entire fairway and continuing into the greenside bunker, in this case from lower left to upper right. As a result two distinct and separate fairways are formed. OLCC"s 16th/7th has a bunker that extends into the fairway but it doesn't even go half-way no less at an angle up to the right side of the green complex. Also, there must be mounds just short and into the opposite side of the green from where the Reef ends so that a shorter hitter can bank it off the mounds and onto the green. There simply isn't any hint to a feature of this type.

Does that mean that Alison wasn't inspired by Tilly's Reef concept? There simply isn't anyway to tell as he never made mention to it in anything that I've ever found.

Jeff Bergeron:

--- Quote from: Phil Young on August 01, 2015, 07:59:00 PM ---Ron,

Yes, Kevin was correct as I was incorrect. I thought he was referring to the original aerial posted by Kyle. He circled the 4th hole as it stood in 1938. The Reef features were greatly softened, most likely in 1930-31, yet if you look carefully you can make out a centerline mound just above the top small bunker short of the green.

Jeff, thanks for pointing out that the 7th hole on the painting I referred to is today's 16th hole, with the nines having been flipped later on in your PM to me, something I had forgotten about. The original 16th hole, today's 7th, is an interesting design. Here it is enlarged from a photo of the painting:


Consider specific features that must be present for it to meet the requirements of Tilly's Reef hole concept. First the "reef" structure should be higher than the surrounding fairway with at least the backside being a downslope. The center portion can be either a mound or a combination mound with bunker/sand. The important aspect is that it continues from the lower end of the fairway at a diagonally cutting across the entire fairway and continuing into the greenside bunker, in this case from lower left to upper right. As a result two distinct and separate fairways are formed. OLCC"s 16th/7th has a bunker that extends into the fairway but it doesn't even go half-way no less at an angle up to the right side of the green complex. Also, there must be mounds just short and into the opposite side of the green from where the Reef ends so that a shorter hitter can bank it off the mounds and onto the green. There simply isn't any hint to a feature of this type.

Does that mean that Alison wasn't inspired by Tilly's Reef concept? There simply isn't anyway to tell as he never made mention to it in anything that I've ever found.

--- End quote ---

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I don't want this to be a discussion of the 7th at Orchard Lake but there is mounding short right of the green which I distinctly remember Keith Foster saying was there to allow balls to be banked onto the green. The drawing is too rudimentary to show that feature.

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