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MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2015, 03:10:41 PM »
Sven,  I don't have anything definitive but I'm fairly certain that the Wicomico course in Salisbury, MD became Green Hill Country Club with nine holes built in the 20s along the Wicomico River.  http://www.greenhillcc.com/about-gh/our-history-est-1927
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2015, 04:24:48 PM »
Whilst we are getting the attention of the creme de la creme of gca.com historians, how about these mysteries which are close to my heart....


5.  Finally, my current "home" club is Aberdour, and it's original 9-holeer was apparently a mile or two NorthWest of the current course and was designed by Willie Park, Jr. (who had done the nearby Burntisland GC course in the late 1890's).  Any more information from anybody on that potential factotum?

Thanks to all

Rich


http://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/scotland-63/scotland-central-east/fife/1260-scot-ce-aberdour-golf-club

Let's make GCA grate again!

Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #102 on: March 24, 2015, 02:11:58 PM »
Sven,

The last article you posted describes Chesapeake Country Club as situated on three hundred forty-one acres flanked on one side by the Chespeake Bay and on another by Ogleton Lake.

This sounds exactly like Annapolis Roads: 341 acres flanked by the Chesapeake Bay on one side and Lake Ogleton on the other.

The Annapolis Roads history never mentions a course prior to the Charles Banks course.

Bret

Bret:

It does sound like the Chesapeake CC morphed into Annapolis Roads.  I'm not convinced the course that Wilkinson planned was on the exact same land used by Banks, but it could have been (the Wilkinson description makes it sound like there was more coastal frontage).

It is of interest to note the timing of Wilkinson's involvement (1923) and the later Banks' project (1928).  One wonders if after the initial plan was scrapped, they were thinking of bringing in Raynor, and Banks ended up with the job after his death, especially considering CBM and SR had just finished their work at Gibson Island.

A fairly concise write up of the history of Annapolis Roads was linked to by Jim Kennedy on another thread: 

http://thelifeofanangloamerican.blogspot.com/2014/01/annapolis-roads-on-chesapeake-bay.html

Sven

Sven,

Thanks for the link.  According to Annapolis Roads An Olmsted Designed Community by James G. Gibb, Charles Banks was recommended by Percival Gallagher in April 1926.  The source cited is a letter from Percival Gallagher (Olmsted Brothers) to Rella Armstrong (owner of the property) in April 1926. 

The author makes it sound like Rella Armstrong was aware of Gibson Island and a few other locally planned communities.  Her goal from the beginning was to have a community of small cottages, a golf course and a hotel.  Her correspondence with the Olmsted Brothers doesn't appear to begin until February 1926.

Here is a link, if you want to take a look:
http://www.annapolisroads.net/editor_upload/File/Annapolis%20Roads%20History/AR%20History%2011_30_12%20Review.pdf

Bret

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2015, 02:21:24 PM »
Sven,

It does appear that at least some of today's Rock Creek Park GC contains vestiges (including at least one hole) from the 1904 version as recounted in "The Nature Faker" by Wayne Morrison and Tom Paul who recount below;

In his August 24, 1924 Washington Post column, From Tee to Green, Henry Litchfield
West wrote of the planned expansion of the Rock Creek Park golf course,

“Fully twenty years ago Col. Jay J. Morrow, then engineer commissioner of the
District, and the writer endeavored to introduce a public golf course in the District and
a portion of Rock Creek park north of the Military road was selected as a site. The
work clearing the fairways was done by the chain gang and street sweepings were used
for fertilizer, no money being available for labor or supplies. The project finally fell
through because Congress looked with disfavor upon golfing as a recreation at public
expense. That was twenty years ago and golf was not the popular, universal sport it is
today."

"A curious thing has now happened. In planning an additional nine holes for the
public course in Rock Creek Park, there has been discovered one of the tees
constructed twenty years ago and it is to be utilized. It is found in the woods, north of
the Military Road and the flight of time is illustrated by the fact that two trees have
grown up in the center of the tee. The hole as then laid out by a couple of enthusiastic
amateur golfers has met with the approval of William Flynn, the architect of the
proposed addition to the course, and will be completed according to the original idea.
The hole is a short one, a tee shot across a hollow to a green on the side of a hill
opposite the tee."

"The discovery of the old tee and the decision to make use of it proves the truth of the
old adage that time at last makes all things even.”
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #104 on: March 26, 2015, 01:45:15 PM »
Mystery #21 - Did Yellowstone ever get a course?

The May 1905 edition of Golfers Magazine reported on a proposed course near the Mammoth Hotel in Yellowstone.

Was the course ever built?

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Pat Burke

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #105 on: March 26, 2015, 03:36:56 PM »
Mystery #21 - Did Yellowstone ever get a course?

The May 1905 edition of Golfers Magazine reported on a proposed course near the Mammoth Hotel in Yellowstone.

Was the course ever built?



Unless it was built with the original National Hotel.
The "Mamoth Springs" hotel began construction in 1913 I think and built off the original National hotel.
http://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/hisnps/NPShistory/quinn.pdf

edit  The "National" was often call the Mammoth Springs back then.   Mystery continues
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 03:40:22 PM by Pat Burke »

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #106 on: March 26, 2015, 07:31:41 PM »
Mystery #22 - Who built August Belmont Jr.'s course?

Belmont, who was one of the most important figures in American thoroughbred racing (Belmont Park is named after him and the horse Man O'War was so dubbed by Belmont's wife while he was serving abroad in WWI at the age of 65).

Belmont's estate was located in Babylon, NY.  The June 30, 1895 edition of the Los Angeles Herald reported that Belmont was having a course laid out and that a "old Scotsman" had been hired to oversee the construction.

So what happened to Belmont's course, and who was the Scotsman that built it?

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Joe Bausch

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #107 on: March 28, 2015, 04:44:54 AM »
Mystery #22 - Who built August Belmont Jr.'s course?

Belmont, who was one of the most important figures in American thoroughbred racing (Belmont Park is named after him and the horse Man O'War was so dubbed by Belmont's wife while he was serving abroad in WWI at the age of 65).

Belmont's estate was located in Babylon, NY.  The June 30, 1895 edition of the Los Angeles Herald reported that Belmont was having a course laid out and that a "old Scotsman" had been hired to oversee the construction.

So what happened to Belmont's course, and who was the Scotsman that built it?



A lurker alerted me to this article, Sven:

http://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/50400909/?terms=august%2Bbelmont%2Bgolf%2Bcourse
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Phil Young

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #108 on: March 28, 2015, 11:03:23 AM »
Joe,

Considering the lengths spoken of in that article, "twelve-hole course, with a circuit of two and three quarter miles at first, and as there is ample room for a larger course, the greens may be extended to eighteen holes, with a circuit of three and a half miles," that was one hefty 12-hole at that time course even for a man who was described as having just "taken up this golf craze with a vengeance."

Also, my math skills might be poor, but I see the lengths as:

12 holes @ 2.75 miles = 2.75 x 1760 yards = 4,840 yards = 403 yards per hole on average

18 holes @ 3.5 miles = 3.5 x 1760 yards = 6160 yards = 342 yards per hole on average

Seems like quite a quirky layout going from the first 12 to the last 6 holes to cause a drop of 61 yards per hole!  :o

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #109 on: March 28, 2015, 11:55:14 AM »
Mystery #18 - Kirchner and Ellenville

Golf in Ellenville, NY started around 1899 with Tom Bendelow laying out the Ellenville GC, noted as being connected with the Terwilliger's Hotel.  The 1901 Harpers Guide notes a course of a different name (Mount Meenagha GC), which might have been the same as the Terwillger's course.

In 1909, Golf Magazine reported that Charles Kirchner had laid out a short course in Ellenville.  I have no other record of this course, and am curious as to Kirchner's identity.

Golf Magazine - Dec. 1909



Charles Kirchner was co-editor w/Tom Bendelow of Spalding's Official Golf Guide.

 Bert H. Terwilliger was born in Ellenville, May 21, 1874, son of Uriah E. and Alice A. (Hoar) Terwilliger, Uriah was also born in Ellenville, in 1850, and was educated at the Claverack Military Academy. For upward of thirty years he owned and conducted the resort of Mount Meenagha, a beautiful and popular vacation place of five square miles in the mountains near Ellenville. (NewYorkRoots)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 12:05:59 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #110 on: March 29, 2015, 05:08:13 PM »
An article containing a photo of the hotel, Terwilliger, and a mention of Bendelow's 1899 course.

Maybe Kirchner was called in because the guests were tired of all the up and down holes that TB built.  ;)   

« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 05:09:55 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #111 on: March 29, 2015, 05:34:09 PM »
Great stuff Jim.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #112 on: March 30, 2015, 12:28:17 PM »
Mystery #23 - Key West's Second Course

Tucked into a Feb. 1930 Golf Illustrated article on golf in Florida is a short mention of two golf courses located at Key West.

In addition, a 1928 list of Florida courses notes both the 18 hole 6,220 yard municipal course and a 9 hole 3,500 yard course dubbed the Key West CC.  We know the 18 holer as the Langford & Moreau project.

Anyone have any information on the 9 holer?

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #113 on: March 30, 2015, 03:14:37 PM »
Sven,

L&M's course (KWCC) didn't have 18 holes until 1960, and it was also a muni project when it was built. Perhaps the author was confused.



« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 06:41:14 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #114 on: April 02, 2015, 02:31:44 PM »
Mystery #24 - Atlanta's Silver Lake Course

The April 1907 edition of Golf Magazine reported on a proposed resort and golf course near Silver Lake in Atlanta.

Did this project ever come to fruition?

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #115 on: April 03, 2015, 10:28:08 AM »
Mystery #25 - CBM, Otto Kahn and New Jersey?

The first article below is taken from the Feb. 1917 edition of Golf Illustrated.  It lists a number of courses designed by Charles Blair MacDonald prior to that date, including a private course for Otto Kahn.  We know about Oheka (lka as Coldstream) on Long Island, which is credited to Seth Raynor in 1923 (with Kahn doing much of the bunker work).  So what course is the article discussing?

There's an old thread in which Steve Shaffer linked to a New York Times article from July 7, 1920 discussing the sale of Kahn's Morristown, NJ estate and his plans to move to his new Cold Spring Harbor property on Long Island.  The article notes the existence of an 18 hole course at "Cedar Court."  I've also attached a modern aerial of the location of Cedar Court.

Was this an unknown CBM design?






« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:36:04 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

BCrosby

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #116 on: April 03, 2015, 11:17:16 AM »
Mystery #24 - Atlanta's Silver Lake Course

The April 1907 edition of Golf Magazine reported on a proposed resort and golf course near Silver Lake in Atlanta.

Did this project ever come to fruition?


Sven -

News to me. I don't think it ever happened. Silver Lake is now a residential neighborhood located just north of the Capital City Brookhaven course (more or less across the street from P'tree GC).  My guess is that it was a project floated by George Adair (father of Perry Adair) that was later relocated a few miles south to the current Brookhaven course location (1912).

Adair built Brookhaven, Druid Hills and, slightly earlier, East Lake. All began life as real estate developments.

My suggestion that Adair was involved is because he was the only person I know of building golf courses in ATL at the time. 

Bob     

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #117 on: April 06, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »
Mystery #26 - Seton Hall's 9 Holer

The Jan. 1905 Golfers Magazine reported on plans to build a 9 hole course for Seton Hall.

Was the course ever built?



"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #118 on: April 07, 2015, 12:22:33 PM »
A map of Rock Creek:


"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #119 on: April 07, 2015, 02:01:16 PM »
Jim,

I wonder if any of that proposed extension was ever built.   Supposedly at least one hole on the 1923 "Flynn" course was a par three across a ravine that was "found" during planning/construction and utilized in the new course.   It looks like it's possible it could have been the original 5th, as well, but I'd have to look at a map of today's course, as that's the only hole with a green north of Military Road, where all of today's course is located.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #120 on: April 07, 2015, 02:27:04 PM »
When you look at the 1988 Google Earth map and compare it to the newspaper sketch I think you'll see that it doesn't seem possible that any green site from the old course could have made it onto the new.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #121 on: April 07, 2015, 02:47:37 PM »
Jim,

Litchfield's 1924 Washington Post story above does only mention that they found a "tee", so they may have surmised, incorrectly apparently, where the original hole/green was intended.   I have to run out right now but might that have been the old 6th tee from Google?
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2015, 09:14:01 PM »
Mystery #27 - Kansas City's Old Elm

The Feb. 1921 edition of Golf Illustrated reported on plans for a new club in Kansas City which would focus solely on golf and would offer a degree of exclusivity.

Any idea as to what this turned out to be?

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #123 on: April 14, 2015, 08:35:50 PM »
Mystery #28 - Who did Kenwood in Bethesda?

Kenwood G&CC in DC supposedly dates back to 1928.  Copied below is an Aug. 1929 Golf Illustrated photo of the course.

So who designed it?

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #124 on: April 16, 2015, 02:19:31 PM »
Sven,

I suspect that Donal Chamberlin who owned and built Kenwood, and who had an engineering background may have done it.  I'm guessing but earlier versions of this course from aerials look a bit simplistic.  Chamberlin was an interesting fellow with some social views that thankfully seem to be passing into the dustbin of US history.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/