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Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2015, 09:00:57 AM »

Also odd:

Unless I missed it, I don't see a central question answered: Public, or Private?

And I kept waiting and waiting and waiting to learn where the course is! Finally found out, in the last paragraph.


Funny ... I had the same two issues with the writing. Needed a good copyedit.

Gib_Papazian

Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2015, 01:53:14 PM »
Mike is correct of course, in order to build a brand, Tiger must differentiate himself from the competition with a hook because - unlike Ben Crenshaw for instance - his name carries as many negative connotations as positive appeal. You can’t pork a conga-line of civilians without accumulating some ugly baggage. Even Her Redness, who only watched a tournament when Tiger was on a charge, wants his ass hanging from the highest yard arm.

Plus, the world hardly needs another carnacian former Tour Prophylactic, inflicting a series of obnoxious, mean-spirited obstacle courses on the public - nor does it need more vapid, monotonous, repetitious, overpriced swill defecated over the landscape by a U.S. Open “Doctor” who couldn’t find his ass with an anatomy chart. Probably best if Tiger doesn’t hitch his Gulfstream to a larger hat size than his ego can stand.

The critical difference between Jack - who has never been knocked from his towering pedestal and therefore feels infallible - and Tiger, is that beneath all of the facades is a little boy named Eldrick who has been mercilessly exposed for who and what he is. I hate to opine and assert a silver lining to this nauseating train wreck we've been watching in slow, agonizing motion, but the savage public beating he’s endured may be the kiln to reshape him into a human being with a bit of compassion. When the game ain’t so easy anymore, you tend to consider leaving an easier path to the barn for slower moving wagons.

Marc,

I notice you took issue with the term "Limey," but not "prick." In response, let me paraphrase a quote from your "Sir" Nick's 1992 acceptance speech at Muirfield: "To my critics, I say thank you from the heart of my bottom."  

            
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 05:05:49 PM by Gib Papazian »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2015, 04:21:35 PM »
Gib,

I enjoy your posts in this thread. The psychology of Tiger could certainly be discussed for a long time. I remember seeing him at Augusta not long before his scandal broke. He struck me as very different from Jack. Tiger came across as an angry man, a person who really didn't enjoy being Tiger Woods.

I'm not a Tiger fan, but do look at him through the lens of another very accomplished, though not famous athlete. Rick Carey was an American swimmer who won three gold medals at the 1984 Olympics, both backstroke events and the 400 medley relay.

After he won his first gold medal he was interviewed and all the people I was watching with all said, basically, "what a jerk".

But, I knew Rick when he was five years old. I knew he was told at that early age "you will go to the Olympics, you will win the gold medal, you will set the world record".

Yes, he won the gold medal, but he just missed the world record. The kid - amazing as it might be to imagine - felt like he failed.

Six months after the Olympics, Rick woke up. "Oh my God, I went to the Olympics. I won three gold medals. But, I didn't enjoy the event. I didn't have any fun or sense of accomplishment."

Tiger, in my view, is like Rick, perhaps Rick on steroids. He was supposed to brake Jack's record. That was his reason for living.

Pretty tough to handle if and when that comes crumbling down.

 
Tim Weiman

Gib_Papazian

Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2015, 09:06:38 PM »
When it cones to Tiger’s “place,” not only in history but right now this minute - since everything in sports is driven and infected by money - I am reminded of Frank Beard, a long forgotten and unappreciated talent in whose 1969 book “Pro,” he observed that everyone on the Tour ought to tithe 10% of their winnings to Arnold.

The same might be said for Tiger - although the money is exponential. Putting aside any value or moral judgments - and irrespective of whether Tiger rides into town covering that bald spot with a white or black hat - the Tour needs him on the masthead.

So every Tour Pro ought to put on the pom-poms and cheer at the top of their lungs he marches to victory at Augusta - because without him, golf reverts back to a boutique curiosity.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2015, 02:51:30 AM »

Dear Gib

Can I sate in the strongest terms that I take extreme offence to you describing Sir Nick Faldo as a "Limey Prick".

The word Limey is an archaic term that references our past when as pirates we consumed limes in order to offset scurvy. Apart from that and for a former colonist I will concede that you have a good grasp of our language.

Really?  I thought the word came from the British Navy's (not pirates') practice of consuming limes to prevent scurvy.  A great technique that saved the lives of countless English sailors, and helped the British Empire spread across the seven seas. 

Gib: I hope you don't change your writing at all. 

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2015, 03:34:58 AM »
Erm Jim.

Thought it was somewhat obvious that tongue was firmly inserted in cheek.

As for our British Navy, I think if you ask the Spanish, they'd say we were Pirates.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2015, 04:03:13 AM »
I was about to say that one man's pirate is another's hero. See the contrasting British and Spanish memories of Sir Francis Drake for more
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 05:04:45 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2015, 04:38:27 AM »
Keeping the pirate theme on topic.......

In Gran Tarajal/Tuineje , Fuerteventura  .. near the Playitas golf course .... in SPAIN .. the locals have an annual  full on Fiesta
over 2 days where they celebrate the defeat of the English Privateers who ransacked and plundered their village and church treasures,
nearly 275 years ago.

When the Privateers came back for a second go they were mercillessly massacred at the Battle of Tamasite.

As a Brit, I feel I play my part - as a subterfuge while partaking of the generous handouts of Vino Tinto !!! 

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2015, 04:49:21 AM »
Good work John.

Adam, yes I even heard they used to have a scary toy duck that they would use to frighten naughty kids. The duck was called 'El Draco' and named after our Sir Francis but who was seen in their eyes as a blood thirsty villain. 

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2015, 06:12:13 AM »

So every Tour Pro ought to put on the pom-poms and cheer at the top of their lungs he marches to victory at Augusta - because without him, golf reverts back to a boutique curiosity.


Gib,

hard as it is to imagine I think Tiger's time has now gone but as with all these things someone else will come along to replace him as marketing needs an icon to sell. As for Sir Nick, I would take over Woods as a golfing companion or dinner guest.

Jon

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2015, 01:00:52 PM »
I have not seen Bluejack.
I have heard mixed reviews, bit more good than bad.
I need to go see it as "old California" is not what I've heard.

Re Brad's piece, they started sodding this winter and I doubt they are cutting any grass yet, so to read the grass is cut tight around the greens seems odd.

To talk about how a course will play, and especially how it is being maintained, when it isn't even grassed yet also seems odd.

But, they have a very good Superintendent and I do think they want it playing fast and I'll bet they get it fast. Just seems like it should be fast before being reported as so.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2015, 03:33:22 PM »

Gib's post should bypass Pulitzer and proceed directly to Nobel!

Gib is special and I never tire of reading his work.


Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2015, 05:50:19 PM »
Gib
How did Tiger differentiate his work?
It seems to me as if they are working towards a Fazio lite.

I haven't seen it in person.
Some of the marketing and Tiger's comments have sounded Wolf Point like.
But this weekend a respected visitor said it was "so in your face" compared to Wolf Point.
I took that to mean lots of definition and look at me features.

Cheers
Mike
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2015, 05:59:06 PM »
I don't get the old California connection - I thought it was a clear Augusta homage. Still liked it a lot though.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2015, 10:13:54 PM »
Must admit didn't see the Old California myself, but that doesn't mean it isn't a nice job.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2015, 10:59:33 PM »
Hmmm...interesting comments both on and off the mark. Methinks that if Gib is not already getting script writing royalties from Californication then he should be!
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2015, 11:40:47 PM »
I have not seen Bluejack.
I have heard mixed reviews, bit more good than bad.
I need to go see it as "old California" is not what I've heard.

Re Brad's piece, they started sodding this winter and I doubt they are cutting any grass yet, so to read the grass is cut tight around the greens seems odd.

To talk about how a course will play, and especially how it is being maintained, when it isn't even grassed yet also seems odd.

But, they have a very good Superintendent and I do think they want it playing fast and I'll bet they get it fast. Just seems like it should be fast before being reported as so.



Don,

Don't go bringing professional experience to the discussion!


Tim Weiman

Keith Kirkendall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2015, 12:41:23 AM »
I am so excited to see what they do out there, I can hardly stand it.  I was a member at Blaketree for many, many moons, and can't wait to see how they destroyed my baby desecrated that C&C utilized that beautiful property.

I am pretty sure I am too much of a peasant to qualify for membership (read that as "cash poor sod"), so I will need to utilize all of my udder-caressing skills to get invited at some point.

I have heard various sums bandied about, but suffice it to say, the place will be pricey for mortals.  I hear they're going have a chocolate shop on the grounds, along with an equestrian center, fishing lodge and other very cool non-golf amenities.

And Gib, this lurker very much enjoys your writing as well.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 12:43:35 AM by Keith Kirkendall »

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2015, 10:18:26 PM »
 8)  Keith K,


Ms Sheila & I visited Bluejack Nat'l today and unfortunately most all will have to accept being "cash poor sods" and just live vicariously through the press photos and google earth views.  One will have to play with a member and I didn't get the impression they're going to be hosting many raters... maybe Brad Klein again, but maybe not his minions.  Some will see, fewer will play.


The infrastructure isn't there yet, but they're making progress and dust, the front 9 is ready for play, the back not as much - needing more grow in time due to delays from spring rains.  Also night time ground temps should begin dipping soon into the 60's (the low to no grow range), so waiting till 2016 other than some sparse play like the Nov members party with Tiger is probably all that will happen on the zoysia carpet and tiff greens.


You can forget working on your equestrian skills at Bluejack, not zoned for it.. but there's plenty of other opportunities in Montgomery County for that...


I understand how numbers multiply, just don't see how they can out do Carlton Woods' Nicklaus/Fazio combo in the Woodlands with one gated community course by Tiger, though built over some good C&C & B bones, out north of Magnolia.


I may be playing the lottery more, nahhh, money better spent elsewhere.   

ps Mike Nuzzo's comment on Fazio Lite is not far of the mark from what we saw.. it Looks like Carlton Woods Fazio cause of the grassing and such but no big and beefy bunkers
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 03:58:12 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Keith Kirkendall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2015, 10:19:50 PM »
Thanks for the report, Steve.  I still haven't been able to discern the routing from the maps I've seen - which holes are around the lake that used to be 4 cape hole?

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2015, 08:05:42 PM »
 8)  Keith,

I gave a blow by blow in another thread  Re: Blaketree National Redesign by Tiger  Reply #32

Regarding Old #4, a favorite cape hole on east flank of lake, old view shown below is now new #1, but you don't or can't or have to take on the water like before unless you hit it 300+, new hole looks nice from tee, elevated tee now transitions in new downhill slope to new wide open fairway with bunker at end right, definitely different from old #4, green moved away from edge of lake put at fairway elevation  with open front; my first impression was classic C&C cape hole neutered





old # 8 is now #2
old # 9 is now #3 a one shotter... from #3 green you can see all of front 9 and even #18 in distance, as they've cleared small trees and underbrush below trees..
old #6 & 7 are melded into new #4
old #5 = new #5
old #1 = new #6
new #7 one shotter over west flank of lake
east side of old #2 green area used for new #8 green, new #8 fairway cut through woods
old #3 = new #9, but hole straightened out, green moved, less dogleg


that should get you started
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:20:13 AM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2015, 11:23:25 PM »
Mike is correct of course, in order to build a brand, Tiger must differentiate himself from the competition with a hook because - unlike Ben Crenshaw for instance - his name carries as many negative connotations as positive appeal. You can’t pork a conga-line of civilians without accumulating some ugly baggage. Even Her Redness, who only watched a tournament when Tiger was on a charge, wants his ass hanging from the highest yard arm.

Plus, the world hardly needs another carnacian former Tour Prophylactic, inflicting a series of obnoxious, mean-spirited obstacle courses on the public - nor does it need more vapid, monotonous, repetitious, overpriced swill defecated over the landscape by a U.S. Open “Doctor” who couldn’t find his ass with an anatomy chart. Probably best if Tiger doesn’t hitch his Gulfstream to a larger hat size than his ego can stand.

The critical difference between Jack - who has never been knocked from his towering pedestal and therefore feels infallible - and Tiger, is that beneath all of the facades is a little boy named Eldrick who has been mercilessly exposed for who and what he is. I hate to opine and assert a silver lining to this nauseating train wreck we've been watching in slow, agonizing motion, but the savage public beating he’s endured may be the kiln to reshape him into a human being with a bit of compassion. When the game ain’t so easy anymore, you tend to consider leaving an easier path to the barn for slower moving wagons.

Marc,

I notice you took issue with the term "Limey," but not "prick." In response, let me paraphrase a quote from your "Sir" Nick's 1992 acceptance speech at Muirfield: "To my critics, I say thank you from the heart of my bottom." 

           


No words at the absolute lack of self-awareness that is this commentary.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein's Glowing Review of Tiger's Bluejack National
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2015, 11:21:29 AM »
...
So every Tour Pro ought to put on the pom-poms and cheer at the top of their lungs he marches to victory at Augusta - because without him, golf reverts back to a boutique curiosity.


It seems to me that Tiger was the boutique curiosity.


Arnie, Jack, Gary


Jordan, Jason, Rory


are big time entertainment.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne