Trouble continues at Sagebrush.

[Sandy Smith]

I really find it sad that this great place might never see another round played.
Sorry guys the story by Brad Zeimer in the Sun won't open.
Google Sagebrush and you should get it.
The place seems cursed with losing Zokol and the passing of Terry.
 

[Bryan Icenhower]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/golf/Merritt+Sagebrush+Golf+Club+reopening+stalled+over+ownership/10831107/story.html

[Bill_McBride]

That's terrible news, Sagebrush is a really great experience, from the course to the Hideout.  I hope they get it figured out.   

Not sure how rental cottages within the boundary of a commercial enterprise like a golf course could be zoned residential.  Somebody screwed the pooch there for sure.

[Tom_Doak]

That is a bummer.  [And I can relate.]

Please keep us posted as to its status.  I've been tentatively planning a trip out to see it this fall and I sure hope there is something to see.

[Edit]  Just read the article.  Sounds pretty bad.

[Pete_Pittock]

The article sure fleshed out the announcement to members I received yesterday. Hope they get their act together since most of their memberships are by annual subscription. Many of their workers come from native population and for their sake that it is soon.

[George Freeman]

This is a HUGE bummer. The place looks amazing and I was looking forward to seeing it someday.

Hopefully the course will survive this...

[Michael Whitaker]

"The cost to complete to date, including interest, is approximately $42,000,000 and there is still no complete or permanent clubhouse, restaurant or pro shop."

You've got to be kidding me!!! And, the article says they have 50 employees... 50!

This place was doomed from the beginning.

[Pete_Pittock]

50?
A lot are seasonal or part time. Maybe 5 in food/beverage, 2 in housekeeping, 5 in pro/admin. That leaves maintenance in th upper thirties.
It probably is the equivalent of 20-25 full-time.
They have about thirty real estate sites with utilities, eighteen holes of cart paths and more than two miles of roads and $1M pumphouse.
And that's Canadian dollars.

[Bob Jenkins]

Having played at Sagebrush for several years, I too am very saddened over the inability to play and stay up there.

I have never had as much fun on a golf course as I have at Sagebrush. The huge, firm greens, all of which are unique, bouncing the ball into several greens, lunch and dinner at the Hideout and much more, all in an incredibly beautiful setting. One of my favourite things at Sagebrush was to take golfers around for their first round on the course and seeing their reactions to those very same parts of the course that gave me such pleasure. I have especially enjoyed playing up there with GCAers, many from far away.

I doubt the course will close. There is too much invested, especially now with the cottages in place and I expect someone will buy into it but at a drastically reduced price. It could not possibly make money considering the investment unless all of the lots were to sell and that will be difficult in that area. I hope someone can pull it off. It sounds as though they may be having a problem with the regional district or whoever has jurisdiction over the Quilchena area. All of the permits were issued for the cottages including the occupancy permits.

I am cautiously optimistic about it's future.

[Robert Thompson]

I'm told the asking price is around $7M, but I bet it can be had for less if the talk of an annual $2.5M loss is accurate.

[Bob Jenkins]

Robert,

I believe a big chunk of the $2.5 million annual losses is interest on all of the money the owners have put into it so if it can sell for something in the range you suggest, the operation could subsist. At least that is my guess.

[Bill_McBride]

Having played at Sagebrush for several years, I too am very saddened over the inability to play and stay up there.

I have never had as much fun on a golf course as I have at Sagebrush. The huge, firm greens, all of which are unique, bouncing the ball into several greens, lunch and dinner at the Hideout and much more, all in an incredibly beautiful setting. One of my favourite things at Sagebrush was to take golfers around for their first round on the course and seeing their reactions to those very same parts of the course that gave me such pleasure. I have especially enjoyed playing up there with GCAers, many from far away.

I doubt the course will close. There is too much invested, especially now with the cottages in place and I expect someone will buy into it but at a drastically reduced price. It could not possibly make money considering the investment unless all of the lots were to sell and that will be difficult in that area. I hope someone can pull it off. It sounds as though they may be having a problem with the regional district or whoever has jurisdiction over the Quilchena area. All of the permits were issued for the cottages including the occupancy permits.

I am cautiously optimistic about it's future.

It had better stay open.  I need a rematch!   

[Pete_Pittock]

I hope it stays open. It's good enough for me to head up there at least three times a year, and I live 7+ hours away by car. I can't believe the lodges were permitted without their expected usage known to the permitters. They are building a new white tee on 13 just below the blue tees (the Terry's Hideout hole).

This is the news release (last sentence redacted because of personal information) on Sagebrush's website.

February 20, 2015             For Immediate Release
NEWS RELEASE
SAGEBRUSH GOLF AND SPORTING CLUB DELAYS 2015 OPENING DATE
    During the winter, Sagebrush was advised of a zoning issue with the Thompson Nicola Regional District.  We have recently applied for additional zoning for portions of the property and we are working diligently with the TNRD to complete this rezoning and conform to the zoning by-laws.  Until the rezoning is complete, we are unable to use our cottages or Badlands patio as we have in the past.
    In addition, we continue to work with a number of parties interested in acquiring Sagebrush to build out the facility and complete the vision that has always been expected of Sagebrush.  Sagebrush and Capilano Golf and Country Club were the only two B.C. courses recognized in the top 100 courses outside the United States by Golf Digest in 2012.  Golfers from around the world visit the beautiful Nicola Valley to enjoy our unique golf experience.  In contrast with the BC golf industry, Sagebrush increased the number of rounds played in 2014 over 2013 by 23.7%.
    Due to the rezoning issue and the pending ownership change, the current owners have reluctantly decided to delay opening until they can be resolved.  Once we have certainty on these two issues the owners will set an opening date.  “We regret the inconvenience to our staff, members, guests and charity and corporate events that are affected by this decision,” said Bob Garnett, President.  “We will be working hard to resolve both matters and open Sagebrush at the earliest opportunity.”

[Bill_McBride]

Sagebrush is one of my favorite remote golf experiences over the years.   Cabot Links is another and guess what, Rod Whitman designed both those courses.   Whitman for Architect of the Decade!

[Sean Leary]

Will MacEwen an I  were talking about the 42 million dollar figure today. Just seems WAAY high. Does anyone know where the bulk of the costs came from? How much could the irrigation have been? Crazu interest rates on the note? Land should have been cheap.

[Steve Okula]

Will MacEwen an I  were talking about the 42 million dollar figure today. Just seems WAAY high. Does anyone know where the bulk of the costs came from? How much could the irrigation have been? Crazu interest rates on the note? Land should have been cheap.

Pulling numbers purely out of my ass, they say they have a million dollar (Canadian) pump station ($800,000 U.S) which should get them top of the line. Another 2 milion CAD for the irrigation would be extravagant. Turf equipment and maintenance facility could be 1.5 million each. Utilities and infrastructure a million, and cart paths two million, add ten million or so for course construction (it may be expensive to get sand and gravel out to a remote location), and you could spend 20 million CAD, not including Zokol's design fee. Is that seven figures?

[Jim Franklin]

That is a bummer.  [And I can relate.]

Please keep us posted as to its status.  I've been tentatively planning a trip out to see it this fall and I sure hope there is something to see.

[Edit]  Just read the article.  Sounds pretty bad.

I truly hope it is still open as I would love to hear what you have to say about the course. As Bob said, it is one of the most fun rounds you can play. I loved watching the ball bounce and kick in all directions. And The Hideout is second to none. Loved Sagebrush almost as much as Rock Creek Cattle Company. That's how good it is.

[Bob Jenkins]

Pete,

Thanks for your post. That news release leaves me feeling more positive.

I remember the difficulty they had getting occupancy for the Hideout in the second year until they put in a handicapped accessible washroom so maybe they are having more of the same bureaucratic problems as before.

Tom,  like Jim, I would love to hear your comments on Sagebrush and hope we get a chance to hear them.

Bob J.

[Tom_Doak]

Will MacEwen an I  were talking about the 42 million dollar figure today. Just seems WAAY high. Does anyone know where the bulk of the costs came from? How much could the irrigation have been? Crazu interest rates on the note? Land should have been cheap.

First of all, you should never believe any numbers you hear in the golf business.  Some are trying to impress you with how much they spent, and including charges that have zero to do with golf; others are trying to impress you with how little they spent, and "forgetting" major line items.

But it is surely possible that $42 million was spent if you include things like:

Land Costs
Engineering
Permitting [legal fees, etc.]
Cottage Construction
Road Construction
Power, water lines, etc.
Maintenance building
Maintenance equipment
Design fees
Management fees ... some people actually borrow money to pay themselves to manage the project!

I have worked on a few projects where the total tab was well north of $40 million, even though what I would call the "golf course construction budget" was less than $10 million.

The only part that's hard to believe is that they thought they could spend $40m and NOT go bankrupt.

P.S.  I would be curious to see it because, as you probably don't know, we were the only other firm besides Rod Whitman who was interviewed for the job.  Jim Urbina went up to look at the site for me; I was too busy with other projects at the time and didn't go.  It seemed obvious they were going to settle on Rod, anyway, and I was happy to see him get the job.  Of course, that was back in the days when there was plenty of work to go around!

[Wayne_Kozun]

I'm told the asking price is around $7M, but I bet it can be had for less if the talk of an annual $2.5M loss is accurate.

$7M - that barely buys you a detached house in Vancouver.  I wonder how much you can bring costs down?  Surely you wouldn't lose $2.5M per year if you don't have debt payments to make.

[Matt Bosela]

I'm told the asking price is around $7M, but I bet it can be had for less if the talk of an annual $2.5M loss is accurate.

$7M - that barely buys you a detached house in Vancouver.  I wonder how much you can bring costs down?  Surely you wouldn't lose $2.5M per year if you don't have debt payments to make.

The question I have for the experts in here is this - even at $7 million, how much of a market is there to buy a course that's lost this much money on an annual basis AND is on leased land?

As a former member (and huge fan) of the course, I certainly hope it gets through this difficult period.

[Bill_McBride]

That is a bummer.  [And I can relate.]

Please keep us posted as to its status.  I've been tentatively planning a trip out to see it this fall and I sure hope there is something to see.

[Edit]  Just read the article.  Sounds pretty bad.

I truly hope it is still open as I would love to hear what you have to say about the course. As Bob said, it is one of the most fun rounds you can play. I loved watching the ball bounce and kick in all directions. And The Hideout is second to none. Loved Sagebrush almost as much as Rock Creek Cattle Company. That's how good it is.

Rod is really gifted.  Sagebrush and Cabot Links are two of the best modern courses I've played, and they are on completely different pieces of property thousands of miles apart. 

[Michael Essig]

How much could the irrigation have been?

Terry told me the amount at the King's Putter, and I recall the number was $8M.  I think that included purchasing water rights and everything else associated with irrigating the course.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Sagebrush looks to be a very nice golf course carved out of wasteland in the middle of nowhere. Presumably if the owners default on their loans it will be owned by some bank or consortium of banks. They'll sell it for whatever they can get for it.

So long as someone is prepared to pay more than the land's agricultural value surely it will remain a golf course, and without the burden of the construction debt the new operators stand a chance of making it a success...

Or is my thinking too simplistic?

[Jim Franklin]

Sagebrush looks to be a very nice golf course carved out of wasteland in the middle of nowhere. Presumably if the owners default on their loans it will be owned by some bank or consortium of banks. They'll sell it for whatever they can get for it.

So long as someone is prepared to pay more than the land's agricultural value surely it will remain a golf course, and without the burden of the construction debt the new operators stand a chance of making it a success...

Or is my thinking too simplistic?

It is always (nearly always) that the second or third owner of a course starts to make money.