[Carl Johnson]

This topic occurred to me as a result of a personal discussion.  The following article describes a proposal to develop the old Charlotte Golf Links (T. Doak, Arch.) property.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2015/02/13/5512996/hearing-set-for-cahrlotte-golf.html#.VN5pGCyWlv8

The site is 188 acres.  Here's the outline from the article:

• Up to 650,000 square feet of office space and 250,000 square feet of retail.

• Up to 500 housing units, of all types.

• Up to 250,000 square feet of recreational facilities.

• At least 33 acres of open space, including required buffers and a 3-acre park at the center of the development.

• A possible Charlotte-Mecklenburg school with grades K-8.

• A possible Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department substation.

Although open space is provided for, no golf remains.

A nearby resident, Jon Wolf, is quoted in the article: “I’m sorry for it to go,” he said. “It’s nice to have a local golf course for people who can’t afford a country club.”  He said it would have been nice if a developer had saved nine holes and built a small residential community around it.

The developer is Lincoln Harris, headed by President and CEO Johnny Harris, who owns and/or controls the Quail Hollow Club in Charlotte.

Have their been any recent developments involving golf courses in projects like this where the course is the center (that is, not weaving through the houses and buildings)?  For example, the course starts and finishes in the business part of the development, out and in?  Other comments?

[Mark Pritchett]

I suppose Daniel Island (SC) kind of fits the bill. 

[Bill_Yates]

Disney's Celebration city and golf course near Orlando was supposed to be one.

[Mike_Young]

I think Harbortown is one....

[Bill_McBride]

Las Collinas in Irving TX is like that.  The course winds through both office buildings and residential property.   

But it doesn't have anything of the integration into the town that you find at Elie, which is too cool.  You cross a city street to reach the 4th tee and then 200 yards down the fairway there's a pub on your left!

[C. Sturges]

The Villages in Florida.
chris

[Carl Johnson]

Las Collinas in Irving TX is like that.  The course winds through both office buildings and residential property.  

But it doesn't have anything of the integration into the town that you find at Elie, which is too cool.  You cross a city street to reach the 4th tee and then 200 yards down the fairway there's a pub on your left!

Bill: Actually, Elie was one thought I had for the model, particularly the outgoing holes with the town buildings on the left.  I was there in 2002.  Of course, the beginning and end of TOC comes to mind, too (obvious).

[Tim Gavrich]

Harmony and Pointe West here in FL are more or less of this sort. On the very private side, Windsor GC seems to be set up in that way, too.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Back in Landscape Architecture school, we studied Reston, VA as a integrated and mixed use town plan.  Golf was there, and pretty close to the town center, but mostly behind houses as is standard. I do think they emphasized views from main roads to golf at the expense of residential frontage to make it feel like a golf community for all.

I did tour it after college, but it has been a while, so my memories may be off a bit. But, it was touted as an early new urbanism type place and got all sorts of planning awards.

[archie_struthers]

When Imfirst read the question my mind went immediately to Pinehurst  bit maybe the neurons are in juxtaposition . Suppose that Pinehurst is a "golf centered town " !  

How about St Andrews .? Certainly the town preceded the links but hasn't it grown all around it ? 

[Carl Johnson]

When Imfirst read the question my mind went immediately to Pinehurst  bit maybe the neurons are in juxtaposition . Suppose that Pinehurst is a "golf centered town " !  

How about St Andrews .? Certainly the town preceded the links but hasn't it grown all around it ? 

Archie, I was thinking of Elie and St. Andrews (TOC especially) as models.  There are most likely other such British courses I'm not aware of.   I want the first tee and final green right in town!  Could something like that be done in the USA today?  Probably not, but just thinking about it.  Pinehurst doesn't fit my idea -- nothing against Pinehurst -- just not what I was thinking of.  It certainly is a golf-centered town.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Winter Park CC, near Orlando is such a course:

http://winterparkcountryclub.com/

[Tim_Weiman]

Las Collinas in Irving TX is like that.  The course winds through both office buildings and residential property.  

But it doesn't have anything of the integration into the town that you find at Elie, which is too cool.  You cross a city street to reach the 4th tee and then 200 yards down the fairway there's a pub on your left!

Bill: Actually, Elie was one thought I had for the model, particularly the outgoing holes with the town buildings on the left.  I was there in 2002.  Of course, the beginning and end of TOC comes to mind, too (obvious).

Carl,

Elie might be the coolest place in golf.

[Dave Doxey]

Back in Landscape Architecture school, we studied Reston, VA as a integrated and mixed use town plan.  Golf was there, and pretty close to the town center, but mostly behind houses as is standard. I do think they emphasized views from main roads to golf at the expense of residential frontage to make it feel like a golf community for all.

I did tour it after college, but it has been a while, so my memories may be off a bit. But, it was touted as an early new urbanism type place and got all sorts of planning awards.

Being in the center of things may spell the end for the Reston course.  A new metro transit train station is coming nearby, making the land valuable for development.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/reston-golf-course-owners-renew-efforts-to-build-homes/2015/01/20/87c0d98c-9cfb-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dave.

Thanks. Interesting read. Sounds like just another version of taking a golf course out for development.......

I do have a client who is considering relocating part of its golf course to make room for development in a prime location.  At least they have an available parcel of less valuable land to do it, rather than shorten to 9 holes.  (I have two courses considering reductions from 27 to 18 and one from 18 to executive 9)

[John McCarthy]

If 100 years old fits the bill as recent, Mountain Lake is a golf centered town.  For that matter, before the infill wasn't Golf, Illinois kinda centered around a private club?

[Carl Johnson]

Back in Landscape Architecture school, we studied Reston, VA as a integrated and mixed use town plan.  . . .

Being in the center of things may spell the end for the Reston course.  A new metro transit train station is coming nearby, making the land valuable for development.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/reston-golf-course-owners-renew-efforts-to-build-homes/2015/01/20/87c0d98c-9cfb-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html

I just read the article.  One the commenters on the site said: "This golf course is a goner. It represents a gross underutilization of prime real estate and there is no denying that fact within the realm of reason or sensible land usage." (Emphasis added.)

Well, that has to be one of the more moronic statements I have ever heard.

[Carl Johnson]

If 100 years old fits the bill as recent, Mountain Lake is a golf centered town.  For that matter, before the infill wasn't Golf, Illinois kinda centered around a private club?

Jon, thanks for the suggestions.  I was thinking more of a place like Elie or St. Andrews (TOC) where the start-finish and/or at least some other parts of the course are right out there in the commercial public.

[Philip Caccamise]

Looked at a condo in Talega (a subdivision in San Clemente, CA) yesterday, and it's about as close to what you are describing built in this century. Haven't played the golf course yet but the area is amazing.

[Brett Hochstein]

If 100 years old fits the bill as recent, Mountain Lake is a golf centered town.  For that matter, before the infill wasn't Golf, Illinois kinda centered around a private club?

Jon, thanks for the suggestions.  I was thinking more of a place like Elie or St. Andrews (TOC) where the start-finish and/or at least some other parts of the course are right out there in the commercial public.

Sperryville, VA is a small town even by Elie standards, but the par three Schoolhouse 9 will and finish at the Sperryville Schoolhouse, an emporium and pub across the creek from the main (only) corner of town. 

[Carl Johnson]

If 100 years old fits the bill as recent, Mountain Lake is a golf centered town.  For that matter, before the infill wasn't Golf, Illinois kinda centered around a private club?

Jon, thanks for the suggestions.  I was thinking more of a place like Elie or St. Andrews (TOC) where the start-finish and/or at least some other parts of the course are right out there in the commercial public.

Sperryville, VA is a small town even by Elie standards, but the par three Schoolhouse 9 will and finish at the Sperryville Schoolhouse, an emporium and pub across the creek from the main (only) corner of town. 

Brett, not built yet?  What's the story here?  Sounds interesting.

[Brett Hochstein]

Carl,

I will refer you to our only gca related press on it so far, though it is dated back to the heart of the construction process: http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Work-begins-on-new-ninehole-‘throwback’-course-in-Virginia/3187/Default.aspx#.VOTbRos0ehL. I've written about it too on my site.

Essentially, the course will be centered around affordability, ecological sustainability, quickness of play, and, perhaps most importantly, fun.  I know it was a blast to help build, and hopefully it shows in the finish product.  They are hoping for an opening mid summer this year; hopefully the winter and spring act favorably to the grow-in. 

[Joe Hancock]

Very cool looking project, Brett. Thanks for bringing it back to our attention.

Joe

[Brett Hochstein]

Cheers, Joe.  It is a cool project and something that I think golf needs more of.  People shouldn't be afraid of 'simple' nor 'scaled back,' because you can still create something fun and interesting.  Heck, maybe those two terms only leave more time and emphasis for fun and interest.  The movements of the past 20 years have been great, but the golf architecture industry as a whole is still way more complicated than it needs to be.

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