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Buck Wolter

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The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwest G
« on: February 21, 2003, 07:26:08 PM »
Came across this article on the web so I'm hoping Mr. Healey's not offended or litiguous. His web site is
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/golfspy/Articles.htmvery St. Louis oriented but well written articles on golf topics.

I enjoy several courses in the Area designed by the Foulis brothers and thought this group might be interested in an obscure Golden Age family of Architects.

Buck



The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwest Golf

By

Jim Healey

They arrived from Scotland between 1890-1900. They came with little belongings, but with a wealth of knowledge. Most had studied under the "Master", Old Tom Morris, and were considered the craftsmen of their trade - golf course architecture and golf club design. As they walked "The Old Course" at St. Andrews with Old Tom, he made succinct but insightful comments about what nature and Alan Robertson had brought forth. He pointed out the subtleties of the mounds, the masterful bunkering, many of them shaped by the sheep lying against the wind, and the contours of the greens which provide the ultimate challenge for the adventuresome golfer. These were the Scots who brought the game to America, and were determined to spread their love of golf to their new neighbors. Their names are not immediately recognized, as they plied their trade in typical Scottish style - diligently and with great detail. But one family is generally credited with having brought the game of golf to the midwest from St. Andrews. Their name was Foulis.

From St. Andrews to Chicago

From their home at 166 South Street in St. Andrews, Fifeshire, Scotland, only 4 blocks from the Golf Links, came the Foulis brothers; Robert, James, Dave, John and Simpson. From a large family, there were seven children in all, Jim and Dave first made the arduous journey to America in 1895. Their ties to golf were long, as their great-grandfather had herded the grass-trimming sheep at St. Andrews when George III was king of England prior to the War of 1812! Their father, James Sr., was the foreman at Old Tom Morris' shop for over 40 years, and was generally recognized as one of Scotland's foremost authorities on the manufacture of clubs. The brothers apprenticed in the shop, and they acquired quite a reputation from their days studying under Old Tom, in particular young Robert who received the more formal training, as Old Tom seemed to take him under his wing. Apart from Simpson, who remained an amateur, all the brothers became ultimately became golf professionals.

So it was that when Charles Blair Macdonald wanted someone to be the head professional at his newly designed Chicago GC, the first 18 hole course in the country, he first offered the position to Robert. But a youthful eye injury prevented him from accepting the position, and he sent his brother Jim instead, who proved himself very adept, even to the stern Macdonald. When Jim arrived, despite never competing in the British Open, he quickly proved himself quite a player; finishing third in the first US Open behind Horace Rawlins, and a year later winning the Open in 1896 at Shinnecock Hills, shooting a 152 (78-74) with the old "gutta-percha" ball. So good was his round of 74, that it wasn't broken for seven years in the Open, when Willie Anderson shot a 72 in 1904. Of the 33 players entered for the 1896 Open only 4 were from courses "out west" as most came from New York, Philadelphia and Boston. Apart from Foulis, there were amateurs Macdonald, his son-in-law Jim Whigham and Dave Leitch from Denver.

An interesting question might be raised regarding the Chicago GC and Jim Foulis. As his expertise grew, Jim never attempted any re-design of his home course. Tim Surlas, head professional at Chicago today, told me that this is most likely due to two circumstances; first the dominant personality of Macdonald. Foulis would probably not have made any changes with 'ole C.B.'s approval. Secondly, was the membership of Chicago itself. They undoubtedly recognized the treasure they had and for years, the only changes made were those suggested by Macdonald himself.

It seems odd to recall, but in 1895, prior to the Chicago GC being built, there was only one golf club in the Chicago area, the 9-hole Belmont GC, which had also been created by Macdonald and was the site of the first Chicago GC! No clubs existed in St. Louis and only a handful of 9-hole tracts were spread throughout the west and midwest! But thanks to the Foulis' more courses would begin quickly.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Buck Wolter

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2003, 07:27:24 PM »
cont.

Golf comes to St. Louis

That same year Jim contacted Robert and told him that he had a position for him in Lake Forest, Illinois. Robert arrived in 1896 and quickly began work at Onwenstia, which he completed the same year. Robert remained at in Chicago, while Jim moved south to work on the initial 9 holes at St. Louis CC. The site chosen by the club, in suburban Clayton facing Hanley Road, proved an outstanding site. Those 9 holes were completed in 1896 and, following that success, he completed three more area courses prior to 1900; Kinloch CC, the St. Louis Golf Club, also called the Jockey Club, in 1898, and the Florissant Valley CC in 1899. All of these had just 9 holes, as was the norm in those days, and no area course even had plans to be adding 9 more. Other courses sprang-up, as other groups saw the early successes, and by 1900 we had 8 courses in the area. But during the next 20 years another dozen clubs would begin. Of the original courses, none remain, but of the 12 in the latter group, all remain in essentially their same location.
Jim & Dave Foulis; A New Ball, A New Club and More Innovations

In 1903 Jim and Dave were in the fairway of the Chicago GC hitting the newly designed rubber-covered golf ball [called the Haskell ball]. "Jimmy and I played one of the first dozen ever turned out", Dave would recall years later "and even Jim couldn't keep them from ducking to the ground just off the tee. We quit after a little while and rode our bicycles back to Wheaton. We remolded the balls, marking them the same as we used to mark the solid gutta-percha ones. That fixed them; Jimmy made 'em go after that. The trouble was that the covers were too smooth; they wouldn't grip the air." In an interesting addition to this story, Coburn Haskell, the inventor of the rubber-coated ball, heard what the Foulis' had done to his ball, and threatened to sue them. But what they were doing is buying his ball, 'marking' them to make them fly better and then reselling the balls. Haskell eventually did nothing (but he did buy a mold to mark his balls as well!). The brothers made quite a bit of money improving the Haskell ball and making the balls fly further.

Dave then got around to the subject of their mashie-niblick. "That brought up the need for a new club, for the old ones wouldn't hold a middle distance pitch shot on the green with the new and faster ball. I took a niblik and remade it, and the result was the mashie-niblick!" [Today we call this club a 7 iron]. Dave had built it and Jim had tested it. And together they applied-for and received a patent on the new club. They held the patent on the club until 1920, and received royalties on each club sold.

They were very innovative in their little shop in Wheaton. One of the things we take for granted is the liner inside the hole. Dave Foulis invented the metal liner for the cup! Early on, the holes were just excavated by the greenkeeper and weren't changed daily. The size of the hole would vary as player after player holed out. Dave made the following observation in a 1905 article in Golf Illustrated, "After a few days the hole would get deeper and deeper, as caddies would scoop sand from the bottom to make tees at the next teeing ground!" [In those days, the tee was often adjacent to the green. In fact, early pictures in Scotland show players teeing off right next to the hole. The arrival of architects on the scene moved it several yards off the putting surface. As you play older courses, such as Normandie, Glen Echo or Triple A, you will notice that the tees are generally within only a few yards of the previous green (unless moved over the years). And before tees were invented, sand was used for teeing the ball]. Besides reselling the Haskell ball, the brothers also manufactured their own golf balls, calling them the American Eagle golf ball. [though there is no record they ever sold any balls, it is known that they gave dozens away!] Another innovation was the "Foulis Flag". This flag was the first which "stands in the cup in a perfectly upright position". It was placed into the metal hole cup for support.

Jim and Dave worked together for several years at the Chicago GC. When Jim left in 1905, Dave became the head professional, and later, in 1921 he held the same position at Hinsdale CC. He retired from Hinsdale in 1939 as golf professional, having held the position for 18 years, but stayed on as greenkeeper. His son Jim also became a professional and was head pro at LaGrange CC for many years. Jim Foulis [Dave's son] was also an excellent player, as he played in the first Masters and won the Illinois PGA Championship many times. He would compete in the US Open, Masters and PGA championships during his long Professional career.

Jim and Dave are also credited with organizing the first Professional Golfers Association of the United States in Chicago. When the PGA was founded in 1916, the Foulis' played minor roles in its formation, but their local chapter was the first in the country.


 

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Buck Wolter

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2003, 07:28:07 PM »
cont.

Robert Foulis; The Saftest 'O the Family

Following his success at Onwenstia, Robert came to St. Louis in 1901 and completed Glen Echo and Normandie. This time, however, he stayed and planted his roots here. In 1908 he went to St. Paul Minnesota and created 9 holes for the Minikahda Club, an outstanding layout which has hosted a US Amateur and a US Open during its long history. In 1910, he, Jim and Dave helped the Field Club make their move from Bellefontaine Neighbors to the Normandy area and they created the original Bellerive CC on the land that is now UMSL. His reputation grew and between 1910 and 1917 he laid out Sunset Hill CC, Midland Valley, Log Cabin, Riverview and Bogey Club. He would also work on Ruth Park and Triple A and ventured to Jefferson City to give them their first nine holes. Ninety-three year old Bill Miller, a fixture at Ruth Park and one of its earliest professionals, recalls meeting Foulis when he worked on the newly-planned University City GC. "We were going to build part of the course where the homes are today, but there was $500 difference in the price of the land, so we took the present site." He noted that almost no dirt was moved to build the course as the land looks pretty much the same as it did in 1930except for the trees. "Most of the holes are the same as they were in 1931. One feature that Foulis later changed, had the second tee behind the first green. It proved too tough, and most players couldn't get to the top of the hill, so they moved it to where it is today." Miller recalls convincing Foulis to get dirt for the greens from the river areagood black dirtthat would allow the greens to drain better, as opposed to the clay found at the site. His idea was accepted. He recalls Foulis as a very typical Scotsman a little dour, very meticulous, and warm hearted to those he befriended.

Robert was so highly regarded by all golfers in the country, and in particular the midwest, that he was looked on as perhaps the greatest authority on club-making and green-construction. His greens at Normandie, in use from 1902 until 1921, were never out of play. His brother John worked with him at the shop at Bellerive, and Jim and Dave would visit them often as they continued to collaborate on courses throughout the midwest. He continually experimented with various grasses to find which would do the best in the different climates. But he didn't spend all his time on the course. He also raised a family.

Robert made his home at 2716 Wheaton Avenue, today near Natural Bridge and the Innerbelt. His son Ronald would become a lawyer and was the chief architect of another kind, this would be his plan for the Missouri Courts. His recommendations became the basis for the 1940 amendment to the Missouri Constitution for the court system. He was also secretary of the Commission which developed the Gateway Arch grounds. He died in 1992 at age 87. His daughter, Eleanora Miller moved to Denver where she remained until her death in 1995. Shortly before her death she authored a book about the early days of the family in Scotland, and in particular her father. "Saftest 'O the Family" was the title, a Scottish term, loosely describing the most easygoing, trusting or affectionate member of the family. This was the term used to describe Robert. Her great niece, Malinda Miller-Huey was instrumental in getting the book published and researching much about the family.

Robert was never considered much of a player, at least he spent more time perfecting his courses than playing. There is no record of his competing in any Open or PGA Championship, while Jim and Dave did so frequently. But while reminiscing for a Vancouver newspaper, Dave would recall that in 1900, while entertaining Harry Vardon and J.H. Taylor in Chicago, that he and Robert took on two-thirds of the "great triumvirate" and bested them over a 6-hole match.

Jim, on the other hand, was one of the best players in the country, and one of the longest drivers. At an exhibition at the St. Louis Golf Club, also called the Fairmont Links or the Jockey Club, the local papers noted that of the holes that were over 350 yards, he frequently drove within 50 yards of the green. And this is with the old "gutta-percha" ball! He is also known to have driven the ball 308 yards at Wheaton in 1896 while playing a match against the best ball of H.J Whigham and C.B. Macdonald, both former Amateur Champions.

 

Epilogue

Gradually the brothers retired from their positions at the clubs. Their mark on the game goes largely un-noticed except by those who take the time to research their contributions. Many of their courses have been turned into housing developments, while others have been "updated" to reflect the trend of the current owner. But a visit to Glen Echo or Normandie or Sunset or Triple A or Forest Park will recall an earlier day in golf. One which was inspired not by profit nor ego, but by love of the game. Taking the land and carving out 9 or 18 holes which allowed those so inclined to test their ability. These courses were meant to be walked; to feel the grass underfoot in the same way the architect and the early players felt as they walked the land. The trees have grown taller and the land is interrupted by cart paths, but the "feel" of these courses dates back over 95 years.

So the next time you visit these wonderful courses, instead of a cart, carry your bag [or take a pull cart], and walk the course as it was meant to be played, as the designers intended you to feel the course.

James died on March 3, 1928 of acute kidney failure in Chicago. Robert died on March 6, 1945 at the age of 71 while on vacation in Orlando. Dave was the last of the brothers, as he died in 1950 at the age of 82, following a brief illness. They are buried in the family plot in the Wheaton Cemetery, adjacent to the Chicago Golf Club, along with the rest of their family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Doug Wright

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2003, 04:21:32 PM »
Buck,

Thanks much for the informative article on the Foulis brothers. James was the original designer of my club Denver CC exactly 100 years ago. I think only 1 or 2 of the original  holes remain though. It's interesting to hear about some of the early scions of American golf course architecture.

All The Best,  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Buck Wolter

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2003, 09:45:21 PM »
Doug-
Much of their work in St. Louis has had a similar fate -- mostly from clubs moving such as St. Louis CC and Bellerive. They've just started tearing up the Forest Park course they did as well. I'm trying to find out how much of Glen Echo and Normandie are original Foulis designs both 1901 and about 6 blocks apart in North St. Louis County. I am more impressed with Glen Echo every time I play it -- I think it may be Hidden Gem material.

Buck
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

TEPaul

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2003, 06:50:20 AM »
Buck:

Thanks for all that--very interesting stuff. It's probably quite similar to the exploits of Alex Findlay particularly up and down the East Coast and very early--came here in the early 1880s and that's super early for American golf architecture.

I'm fascinated though by that early period--and how rudimentary it apparently was but how it began to meld and even influence (maybe in a reactionary way) some of the fast moving and sophisticated architecture that was to build rapidly through the teens to the peak of the Golden Age before coming to a crashing halt in the depression and the significant hiatus in architecture that followed it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MBL

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2003, 06:25:21 PM »
Buck-
Thanks for the post: very cool indeed.  Great to learn more about the contributions of "western" (read - Chicago and St. Louis) golf at the turn of our last century.

[Sure will have me paying more attention during my evening jaunts around Ruth Park ;)....and more credence to Barney's comment of "you guys should lay down in front of the bulldozers" at Forest Park's 10th.]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

jimhealey24

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2003, 09:46:07 AM »
BuckW:

Thank you for the credit on the Foulis article.  I do love the Foulis history.  For those interested, I also did a book on the History of St. Louis golf in 1996 that chronicles our rich history.

Jim Healey
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Hunt

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2003, 11:38:30 AM »
Jim,

Enjoyed your book and a recent article I believe you wrote on St. Louis CC.

Any other projects out there for you?

Hunt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2003, 03:03:58 PM »
Hunt:

I believe Jim Healey's book was all about golf in and around the city of St. Louis.  I've been told it is excellent work.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

jimhealey

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2003, 10:47:02 PM »
My book on the history of St. Louis Golf, Golfing Before the Arch was great fun to do, especially learning about folks like the Foulis' who contributed much to our history.  I also wrote about two dozen articles for the now-defunct Fairways & Greens, mostly on historical pieces, such as the Lost Courses of St. Louis; the oldest courses west of the Mississippi; other articles were on the 1968 Masters; Walker Cuppers Jimmy Jackson and Bob Cochran; a tribute to Ben Hogan and so on.  Recently did the Centennial book for Glen Echo CC, the oldest 18-hole private course west of the mississippi and site of the 1904 Olympic Golf Matches.  It is also the oldest Olympic venue in the World in continual daily use!!

Working on two club anniversary books at present.  One for Norwood Hills and for Algonquin GC.

Jim Healey
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

jimhealey

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2003, 10:59:36 PM »
Buck:

Your comments about Glen Echo and Normandie are very interesting.  Glen Echo has 15 of the holes that are essentially the same routing as was done by Jim and Robert Foulis in 1901.  The 6th hole was added in 1914 when the 3rd and 4th were combined from a par 3 and short par 4 into a single par 4.  Then in 1927 when the club built their new clubhouse and tore down the original Lucas family home, they also added a new 1st and 18th holes.  The 17th today, which had been the finishing hole prior to 1927, was reversed, with the green being today part of the 17th fairway, the tee is today where the original clubhouse stood, and the green today would have been about 1/3 up from the original tee, which was originally located where the nursery is today next to the 16th tee.  As a finishing hole it would have been dynamite.
The rest of the holes are essentially where they have been for 100+ years!

Normandie opened in October of 1901, originally had 5 holes where Incarnate Word Academy is today.  Actually the boundary of Glen Echo and Normandie touched when the clubs first opened, which gives you some idea of the close proximity of the two courses.  In 1919 Normandie acquired additional land and they moved the holes from the IWA site to the layout you see today.  The routing is significantly different from what it is today as the original routing had to take those five holes into account.    So even though the about 13 of the holes are essentially the same routing, the numbering of them was altered at that time.

Forest Park was a Robert Foulis "built" course.  My research indicates that it really was a design by committee, headed by Dwight Davis.  What does that mean.  Well, like many courses at that time, Foulis was given a design and he then used his skill and talents to construct a course.  Did he follow the plans?  No one really knows.  So like a lot of similar "designs" the builder of the course could be credited with being the architect if one really wants to look at the finished product versus what was put on paper for the concept.  

Jim Healey
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Buck Wolter

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2003, 03:01:30 PM »
Jim-
Thanks for responding, wasn't aware you were a lurker around here. Great info on the St. Louis area. I recommend any CB Mac fans take the link at the start of this thread and read your profile of St. Louis CC. I haven't had the chance to play it yet but the article really got me going. Looking forward to some more info from Hunt on the work being done there.

The Foulis Bros. sound like quite a bunch! From Old Tom's Shop to CB Mac's, an Open Winner, equipment inventors and golf designers. Sounds like a pretty good life they lived.

Thanks for the detail about Normandie and Glen Echo. Pretty amazing that Glen Echo has remained as preserved as it has. As I said I am a big fan of G.E. A colleague of mine had an early routing map on his office wall that I plan to look over with your info in hand, hopefully he'll also let me borrow your Centennial Book as well. The similarities between GE and Normandie are pretty obvious conditioning apart. Someday hopefully Normandie will get some TLC.

Looking forward to the Norwood Hills book, another underrated club in the area. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the plans for Forest Park as well.

Thanks again and glad you were OK with my posting of your intellectual property. I'm going to stop by Borders for my Golf under the Arch tomorrow.

Buck
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

hickorygolfer

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2003, 03:31:04 PM »
Good to see some discussion of some of the pioneers of golf in the US. Jim did a few things in this area (MI) and I wish there was documentation of the layouts. Likewise Alex Smith. Anybody know anything about an E. C. Simmonds of Chicago c.1899?
By the way, the Mashie Niblicks that the Foulis' designed were in the 46-48 degree loft range with most of them closer to 48. The clubs compare more favorably with a modern PW. They are very nice pitching clubs because of the straight leading edge and the extra toe weight. A standard Mashie is closer to a 7 Iron, just a bit of trivia.
R
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

jimhealey24

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2003, 07:12:46 PM »
Buck:

Borders I don't believe has any in stock, but Golfzilla does as well as the pro shop at Glen Echo and maybe Algonquin.

Jim
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dick Pinto

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2003, 04:49:51 PM »
This is a very interesting article. Thanks for the info.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2003, 06:00:48 PM »
I sent a St. Louis friend to Borders to get the book for me.  It took two trips - Its not in golf as you may suspect, but rather its in the "local interest" section.  Apparently, not all Borders have it in stock.  So, check ahead.

I can't wait to read this book!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ronald Foulis

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2003, 07:56:27 PM »
Thanks for the good works, Jim.
(Robert's Grandson)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JudgeHooke

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2003, 01:40:08 PM »
This is a message to Jim Healey.  You and I met at the Glen Echo celebration, and we discussed whether the current No. 9 hole par 3 has changed direction since the original design.  You felt quite certain that it had not changed significantly over the years; however, I have a framed map of the course as it looked for the Olympics in 1904, and it clearly shows the tee on the east side of the pond and the green on the west side of the pond... quite different from the north to south layout that we have today.  Is the map wrong or was there indeed a change to the layout on this great hole?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2003, 10:44:24 AM »
Jim Healey, well done article and I will look for the book as well.  In your investigation of records or letters that may have helped you in your writing, had you come across any material to suggest the relationship of the Foulis Bros., with Tom Bendelow or William Langford.  Since they were all so active in the Illinois-Missouri-Wisconsin area, and Foulis and Bendelow have a greenskeeper-designer intersection at Olympia Fields, there must have been a relationship.  Also, as active as Foulis Bros. were in associations as was Langford, there must have been relationships of sorts.  Do you think they were friendly or fierce rivalries?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

wfoulis

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2003, 11:51:29 AM »
Related to Foulis via Boston, MA
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RickFoulis

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2003, 12:39:43 PM »
Does anyone know if Jim Foulis, who won the 1896 U.S. Open, had any children ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Art_Schaupeter

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2003, 12:43:56 PM »
Buck,

Thanks for posting this article.  Very interesting regarding the Foulis's and St. Lous golf.  

Jim,

How are you doing?  Excellent articles.  I really liked the SLCC  article.  Regarding Normandie, do you know which holes are original? Or how the routing changed from it's original configuration?  I think that this course is such a wonderful example of how courses were designed and routed "over" the ground in the early part of the century, as opposed to being "cut into" the ground, as is typically done nowadays.  If you can look past the poor conditioning, I can see a lot of potential for Normandie to be a really neat golfing experience.  I really enjoy playing there, despite the conditioning.  I am curious how the course changed from it's original configuration.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Buck Wolter

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Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2003, 09:26:37 PM »
Art-
How's the work at Forest Hills going?

Agree with you about Normandie, I think 9 is one of the best par 4's in town. Add in the long Par 3's at 3 and 18 (how about a 240 yd par 3 finisher!), a strong supporting cast and if you can dodge the golf balls it's a great walk. On the other side #4 is awful and the twin downhill par 3's are a weakness.

Is there a faiway bunker on Normandie? Glen Echo doesn't have any but the Judge's routing map shows a few from the time of the Olympics.

Buck
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

jimhealey24

Re: The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwe
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2003, 11:02:19 PM »
RJ

Bendelow and Foulis did intersect at Algonquin GC.  Bendelow designed it in 1903 and Robert Foulis did the construction.  We have this from newspaper articles and from Robert's comments.  Also in 1904 Bendelow was an official at the Olympic Golf Matches at Glen Echo, the course where Robert was head pro and greenkeeper, so they would have had a lot of contact.  There is no other record of them crossing paths in St. Louis.  Tom built Rock Springs in 1912 (Alton, IL) and Westborough (Westwood at the time) in 1908.  That would be all of his work in the St. Louis area.  Dave and Jim would have dealt with him much more in the Chicago area.  Robert touched most of the courses built in St. Louis prior to 1930, especially as a consultant on grasses and turf, but we don't have a listing of his specific work in this area, just occasional notes in club minutes.

Jim
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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