[Tim Leahy]

I tried to resist chiming in on a discussion involving #2, but I can't. Frankly, I reject any attempt to evaluate #2 on a hole-by-hole basis. There may not be a better example of a course where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I have never played Rustic Canyon, so I can not enter the comparison, even if wanted to. I will say that the green complex on #2's second hole is among the best I have ever seen. Anyone who doesn't get that, should consider dropping out of the discussion. I am going to just that before I get really annoyed at some yo-yo that does not recognize the subtle brilliance of #2.

Please ignore some yo-yo that has never played RC chiming in on a comparison of the two courses.

[DMoriarty]

. . . Frankly, I reject any attempt to evaluate #2 on a hole-by-hole basis. There may not be a better example of a course where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. . .

It sounds like Rustic Canyon and #2 are well matched in this aspect at least.  As Rich said, there aren't really any "wow" moments. Yet the parts are so complimentary that considering single holes in isolation doesn't really seem to do it justice.  That said, so far as I can tell Alex is doing a very good job of trying to capture the essence of the holes he has discussed thus far and I am curious as to what else he has to say.

As for the rest of your post, if you don't want to participate, then don't.   I hardly think it necessary to try and browbeat and insult others into dropping out and/or agreeing with you.

[jim_lewis]

Sorry to offend guys. I thought "yo-yo" was much more polite than Pat's  "moron".

I have modified and extended my previous post on page 2. I hope it will be better received.

[Will Lozier]

Rustic Canyon couldn't beat Pinehurst No. 2 if Pete Carroll was doling out improper benefits to Canyon's holes while simultaneously coaching No. 2's goal line offense.

Thanks for that great architectural observation.

[Alex Miller]

Sorry to offend guys. I thought "yo-yo" was much more polite than Pat's  "moron".

I have modified and extended my previous post on page 2. I hope it will be better received.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone's offended. It was incredibly easy to drift over your post when you admit to having no basis for comparison.

I like your description of 2 on #2 though, and again the first two lines could apply to RC's as well! #2 at Rustic would be in my top 10 out of the 36 holes we will go through. Approximately T-7 along with #2's second, though I haven't done a ranking of all 36 holes and won't attempt to.  Both are great holes.


We'll move on to number 3 shortly...

[David Kelly]

The difference between Rustic Canyon and Pinehurst #2 is that at Rustic Canyon I have two holes-in-one, on #6 and #8 while at Pinehurst #2 I only have one hole-in-one, at #9.

[David Stamm]

The difference between Rustic Canyon and Pinehurst #2 is that at Rustic Canyon I have two holes-in-one, on #6 and #8 while at Pinehurst #2 I only have one hole-in-one, at #9.

Showoff....

[DMoriarty]

The difference between Rustic Canyon and Pinehurst #2 is that at Rustic Canyon I have two holes-in-one, on #6 and #8 while at Pinehurst #2 I only have one hole-in-one, at #9.

Somehow because of this I think less of both courses.

[Peter Pallotta]

The difference between Rustic Canyon and Pinehurst #2 is that at Rustic Canyon I have two holes-in-one, on #6 and #8 while at Pinehurst #2 I only have one hole-in-one, at #9.

Showoff....

Strange -- I don't remember David ever doing that before. It's these damn match play duels -- they bring out the worst in people; in me, my belief that I can meaningfully contribute without having played EITHER course. (I'd better watch out here though -- Alex seems to be a stickler about that, and as serious as a deacon.)

[Mac Plumart]

I'm lacking the time to post my hole by hole winners as the thread gets to the specific holes.  So, I'll just post my overall scorecard with a few random thoughts...

#1--#2
#2--#2
#3--R.C
#4--#2
#5--#2
#6--R.C.
#7--R.C
#8--R.C.
#9--#2

After nine, Pinehurst #2 up 1

#10--#2
#11--R.C.
#12--R.C.
#13--#2
#14--#2
#15--#2
#16--#2
#17--#2
#18--#2

Overall, Pinehurst +6.  Although Rustic is a good course with some very solid holes. 

Rustic #3 and #12 are my favorites on the course and holes that I consider truly great holes.

Pinehurst #2, #5, and #13 being my favorites on the course.  Pinehurst #2 is a collection of nothing but solid golf holes with a number of truly world class holes.

Both courses are more than just a collection of holes and are, indeed, proper and well put together golf courses.

[Tom_Doak]

One of the things I've always thought about Pinehurst #2 is that there is no single hole which I want to put straight into one of those Eclectic 18's of the best holes in America, but that nearly every hole on the course is good enough to use in a pinch, if you can't think of a great #6 or #10 or 11 or whatever.

On the other hand, I do not think "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".  Each hole taken individually is demanding and interesting, so it's hard for me to see how many courses would beat it in a hole-by-hole match.  [I've only played Rustic Canyon one time, so my comparisons between the two would be lopsided.]  But I can see how some people might find Pinehurst #2 too repetitive and too relentless in its demands around the greens; it is one of the most demanding tests of the short game in the world, and there are lots of golfers who have difficulty enjoying that.

[Joel_Stewart]

I was having dinner last night with Ran and George Waters and Rustic Canyon came up as possibly the most under rated golf course in the US. Why is that?

[DMoriarty]

Because it is cheap, accessible, and lacks the amenities/appearance/maintenance of a first class club.

[Tim Passalacqua]

I was having dinner last night with Ran and George Waters and Rustic Canyon came up as possibly the most under rated golf course in the US. Why is that?

Joel,

Rustic is amazing.  Everytime I play there, I wonder how this golf course isn't ranked.  The variety of the course is incredible.  Not one hole is alike.  5 par fives and 5 par threes that all play and look incredibly different.  It has great width with terrific angles.  It plays extremely firm.  The fringe cut extends for many yards away from the putting surface, where putting from 30 yards off the surface is an option.  The ground game is alive and well at Rustic.  It is a pleasant walk. There is nothing not to like about Rustic.....the tee shot at 15 might catch a little heat.  It is high on my list.  It is fun, strategic golf.  I would agree with it being very underrated.

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