Brookside CC (Canton Ohio)

[ed_getka]

I recently played this course with Dan Belden and his father. I was stunned  I had never heard of this Ross course with some fantastic greens. The topography of this course is phenomenal for a golf course and 17 greens there are sited so brilliantly that I couldn't imagine them anywhere else. This course has to be at least a 7 on the Doak scale, although Tom didn't rate it that high in Confidential Guide. What are others thoughts regarding this course?
  A huge thank you to Dan Belden for introducing me to this hidden gem (at least to me)!
  I have to run, will post more later.

[JLahrman]

What is the green that doesn't fit in?  I've seen parts of the course but haven't played it myself.

[ed_getka]

The 5th green just doesn't seem to fit to me. Its not because it is relatively flat. Compared to the other greens that were sited SO well, the 5th just strikes me as being in the wrong place. It seems it could be farther back up into the hollow it sits in or something.

[JLahrman]

I've only seen the back nine, mainly 13-17.  The course is a hidden gem, even to those of us who live in Ohio.  Lots of great courses here, but how Brookside can't even place in some of these ratings is a mystery to me.

[Brad Klein]

Not so hidden - been on our Golfweek top-100 Classical list since 1999 and now ranked no. 72 - justifiably.

See my post abut its new restoration plan on the GCA post about "impediments to restoration."

[JLahrman]

It does wind up on the classical lists, that's true.  It never seems to sniff Golf Digest though.

Brad, do you feel that members are more apt to support a restoration as they learn more about it?  Or does it take a certain type of membership?  In the other thread, a membership opposed a restoration for fear that the difficulty level would increase too much.  This attitude probably wouldn't change as members learned more about the proposed work and the reasons behind it.

I suppose my question is, there seemed to be a great deal of membership support behind the restoration at Brookside.  How much of this was due to your efforts to educate and work with the membership, and how much was due to the preexisting attitude of the membership itself?

[Brad Klein]

I've been to Brookside three times in three and a half years. That's not enough to change the membership, but it's enough to let them know that the outside world is watching. There's also been a steady stream of Golfweek raters there, and they have left a strong impressio with the membership and staff. Interestingly, I only went there in late 2000 after the course first appeared on our list to see what the fuss was all about and whether I tohught it belonged. I was astonished at the greens - 17 of them are stunning - the 5th is execrable. There's a great story about how they literarally fired RTJ Sr. on the spot in the middle of the 11th hole in the mid-1980s. Good for them!

They also have very good aerial photo documentation.

I could tell the membership was excited about the place. A great atmosphere in the grill room, and the dynamic among the pro (Jim Logue - a regular qualifier in the US Senior Open) and the super (Bob Figurella, a real vet) with the g.m. was ideal. So they all warmed up and were on the same page, no doubt due also to the efforts of a "change agent" member named Steve Cress who's a hard-working businessman and was president in 2001.

I knew they were serious in June 2001 when I came to do a Ross lecture on a Sunday afternoon and 250 people showed up. The open bar helped - I highly recommend it as a device for garnering support.

I've seen many clubs with many different dynamics and politics. Brookside has a good internal ambiance - not devisive or contentious like many I've seen.

[T_MacWood]

Ed
Brookside is one hell of a golf course. The combination of the greens, the really nice rolling property, and good number of standout holes add up to a special place.

I really like 6, 7, 8, 11, 14, 16, 17 and few others. I agree with you on five--the water hazard looks like something out of the 70's (it was probably built in the 70's). The course also suffers from one of the weirdest holes on any course of its quality. The Xmas trees lining (single file) the entire length of the 18th. Actually the hole is not weird...its the trees.

[Dan_Belden]

JAL
       Belive me when I say that if we can get it done at Brookside, then I think most clubs can get it done as well.  
   On the issue of making it harder, that seems odd to me.  One of the advantages of taking out trees and adding fairway is that it makes the course easier for the membership.  Getting out of bunkers is much easier for most than getting out of trees, and wider fairways helps everyone.  
   One of the most important parts of the effort at Brookside was letting the membership know that it would play easier from an everday aspect.  Ross of course belived in recovery shots, therefore to restore a Ross course it should add more opportunity for recovery, not vice versa.  
   One of the first pieces of literature that I presented to the chairman of our project was Mackenzie's  essay in Shack's book on green comm...Namely that he was brought in to rededsing a course that was too hard for average players, and of little interest to expert players.    
  Brad Klein's lecture helped to really start things going, then it helped to stay positive and explain to the members what is really going on.  It can be done, but it takes alot of patience and some really strong minded people that are willing to stick with it.  
 
 

[Dan_Belden]

Tom:
  You want to hear something funny about the 18th at BCC.  Before they redid the right fairway bunkers that Jones SR.  added, it was one of the best Jones holes that I have seen.  I mean really with all those trees it is a classic RTJ SR.  golf hole.  Currently it is not a Ross hole, but the Ross hole is lurking in there.  
   I nice note about 18.  The are two glorious red maples halfway up the hill on the right, currently covered up by pines, that are on the original landscape plan from the 20's.  Pretty cool stuff.  Hopefully we will be able to see them again soon.  

[Dan_Belden]

One note bout the fifth green.  It is followed by four of the hardest greens I have ever played. There might be something to say about having a relatively flat green before you tackle 6,7,8, and  9.  
   It is also the wettest part of the course, and I am sure it caused some consternation back in the 20's when is was built.  There has been some suggestions that the green was built on logs.  Who knows.  
   Finally I think the green suffers a little from the fact that the hole has been completely screwed up. With stupid bunkers, too many bridges, ornimental grasses, railroad ties.etc...etc.. I liken the hole to a really good looking woman that has been dressed up to look like a street girl.  Take off all the makeup and you are left with something really good.  

[jg7236]

Ed Getka,

Is Brookside C.C. in Canton Ohio the only course you played while you where in Ohio?  I know in your post a month or so ago you said you were going to Columbus.  I can't believe you drove to Canton, Ohio to play Brookside C.C. when there where so many great golf courses in and around the Columbus area.  I know I posted most of the courses in the Columbus area for you awhile back.  I am not saying that Brookside C.C. isn't a good golf course, but I don't understand why you made the drive to Canton when you where visiting Columbus, was if for free golf, or etc.  

[Paul Richards]

When they finish their restoration, this will be a FANTASTIC golf course!

I can't wait to get back there and see it when it's done!!!

[Dunlop_White]

Congratulations to all at Brookside! I too have spoken to Steve Cress numerous times by phone about tree management and restoration. His enthusiasm is quite apparent, and he should be commended for his efforts in gaining some consensus and support among the membership.

A placemat? Who'd ever thunk it would be a powerful instrument of persuasion? However, this one is! This placemat contains the full Long Range Master Plan in color for all to see.

First, it appears that Brookside will add about 15 new tees and approximately 200 yards tipping out around 7,075.

Brookside will refurbish, recut, and reshape many of their bunkers in the Ross style.  Some bunkers will be shifted forward, while others, which were once covered-up and abandoned (twelve (12), I believe), will be reclaimed.

Many strategic angles of play will be revived as a result of some aggresssive tree management. Consequently, Brookside will be able to recapture some broader fairway widths which boast intricate movements, instead of straight lines.

The original green shapes and sizes will be restored as well with some special attention given to their integration with surrounding chipping areas.

Additionally, some cart paths will be re-routed, some tees will be levelled, and some ornamental vegetation will be removed.

Keep us all posted on the progress!

[Paul Richards]

This course is truly a "hidden gem" - the only list giving it any credit is the GolfWeek classic list - and it will only improve after the restoration.

Kudos to Brookside for treating their gem with respect!!

[Brad Klein]

To boil everything down to a simple formula. what Brookside did is what every restoration club must do. Convince its members and then go out and show that a properly restored course will do two things simultaneously:

1. make the course easier but more interesting and more fun for the high-handicapper; while

2. make the course harder, more demanding and more thought provoking for the low-handicapper.

The key is to realize that all of the changes of the 1960s and 1970s in the industry - bunkers at 250 left and right, straight fairways, tree-lined holes, small, round greens - achieved exactly the opposite. They managed, collectively, to make courses that were equally dull for all, while easy and mindless for low-handicappers and yet too hard for high-handicappers.  

[Dunlop_White]

Brad,

Well said! Just a thought, but why don't you consider writing a piece on the success stories, given your extensive experience, providing the various approaches to gain membership support and consensus for restoration....much like what has been discussed about negotiating the landmine of club politics with tree management?

I would read it!  

[Brad Klein]

Nov. 24 issue of Golfweek's SuperNews is devoted to Restoration. Guess who is writing much of it. Brookside is a focal point. There will be successes and failures in that issue, Dunlop.

[JLahrman]

Perhaps you could also pass it out to clubs in the future to show what the whole process is like.

Also, I'm curious.  Do clubs seek other clubs' experiences when contemplating a restoration?  Say you were trying to convince another club to undertake a restoration.  Are they likely to contact Brookside to find out the pros and cons of the experience?

[Dan_Belden]

JAl:   Steve Cress attended some workshops or seminars pertaining to restorations at clubs.  I can't remember the details, but I belive Brad would no more about it.  
   Steve also consulted early on in the process with Brad Klein, specifically to find out how other Ross courses went about their restorations.
   Once Brian was hired the green committe took a trip to Augusta CC to see some of Brian's work first hand, and to bend the ear of club officials.  

[ed_getka]

jg,
  We were all set to check out Champions when Dan was nice enough to extend an invite to Brookside. The clincher was when Dan mentioned Brad Klein thought they were some of the best Ross greens he had seen. That is high praise coming from the man who wrote the Ross book.
  There are many great courses all over Ohio, and I appreciated your feedback, but the drive to Canton was well worth it. Dan and his father were great hosts and it was exciting to see how passionate they are about their course and I look forward to seeing it after Brian Silva is finished.
   Are you working in the industry these days?

[ed_getka]

Brad Klein,
 How does your mag rate Plainfield? What do you think are the greatest strengths of the two courses.
   I give an edge to Brookside for overall level of quality holes, although Plainfield has the edge in what I think are brilliant holes, like #7 & 12. Plainfield has a better set of par 5's IMO, but Brookside has a better set of par 3's. Both courses have some excellent greens, but Brookside has more of them. Brookside has the advantage in the land its laid out on also. Its interesting to think what DeVries, Hanse, Eckenrode, et al. would do with that property if it was a blank slate without many trees. Such a wonderful property, hopefully more of it will be in view after they get some trees out of there.

[John Nixon]

This course has to be at least a 7 on the Doak scale, although Tom didn't rate it that high in Confidential Guide.

I suppose that if the originator of the scale rated it, that would be what the course "has" to be. Not sure I understand your logic.  

[jg7236]

Ed,

Thanks for the feedback.  I'am not in the golf industry currently.  I was laid off for budget cuts last December here in Las Vegas from my Assistant Golf Course Superintendent job for Walters Golf (A company that has a higher employee turnover rate than McDonald's).  The economy is killing me, after that I wasn't able to find any jobs in my fields of study of Landscape Architecture or Turfgrass Science.  I am currently back to bartending, what I have always done through all my schooling.  I have paid all the bills off I had while being unemployed, and living on unemployment for three months last year.  I am ready to move on, but I don't think I am going to find my big break in golf course design for a few years.  I am currently looking to get into urban planning/city planning until I can finally get my break into my dream job of golf course design.  The economy is much better back east than it is out here in the west.  So, I have been job hunting back east.  Currently there are a couple of City Planning internships that I applied for just outside Boston that I feel I have a good chance of getting.  Two of the internships are paid, and one isn't.  I am willing to do whatever I have to do to get experience until my big break happens in golf course architecture.

Cheers,
John

[ed_getka]

Good luck John.