[Sean_A]

Mark

I think St E did make my top 10?

Jeff

I haven't been to Island in a while, though it wasn't wide when I was there...few courses are wide in June  

I forgot Montrose as a candidate.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

I may finally be losing it....  Of course it did.

[Thomas Dai]

A most interesting listing. Very envious of you for playing soooo many courses, and quality ones too. The list of courses that don't make your "100"  indicates how much quality golf there is available within GB&I, something we should all be pretty grateful for, and this comment discounts courses, and believe it or not there are some, that even Sean hasn't managed to visit (yet).

A couple of placings I'd disagree with, eg Enniscrone not low enough, but it's always easier to nitpick than construct in the first place.

Well done

It would be interesting to revisit this exercise in a few years and see if anything has changed very much.

Atb

[Niall C]

What I like about this list is that it is unpredictable to a large extent and while you might argue that some courses are higher than they should be you can't argue that the're not quality courses. I often think a lot of the ranking lists are self-perpetuating with rankers simply going back to what was judged top last time without spreading their net wider. I also suspect that there is an element of emperors new clothes with some folk scared to say what they really think of a group favourite. I don't think you can accuse Sean of that even if he didn't manage to find a place for Forfar.

Bart

Re Dornoch, I agree with Sean, it's a terrific course and a place in the top 20 is hardly slighting it. Yes, nice par 3's but so have a lot of other courses. I tend to think that a lot of folks get taken in by the Brigadoon factor and are seduced before they even step on the first tee.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Very good list Sean of which I have played about half of them though many so long ago as to not remember. I think what makes such lists such hot talking points is what criteria you use to pick them. Though many think they would chose on quality of GCA most I suspect are just as influenced by the reputation a course already has, pressure from the group and there own playing experiences on a particular course.

Despite having played many of them my top 5 would be very different

No place for Deal but I suspect that having only played 36 on it in one day I probably do not have enough play to really appreciate it as I should. Also no Dornoch as although I think it is a great, great course the par 3's lack a variety in the challenge they set. 3 of the 4 ask the same question from the same angle which although is a good question gets a bit stale by the 10th. And no Sunny Old as it is just to long ago since I played it to make clear judgement on the course.

My top 5 would be

1. Kilspindie - not on your list but a course I have played a lot in all conditions and I have always enjoyed. It is my one course for the rest of your life course.
2. Muirfield- Just a great course from a GCA and playing point of view backed up with a unique club atmosphere
3. Ganton- For me simply the best inland course I have played in GB&I
4. Alwoodley- A course that never fails to deliver and one which the whole is definitely more than the sum of its parts.
5. North Berwick. Just a blast from start to finish

Jon

[Jud_T]

Sean,

Looks like you need to get Castle Stuart on the docket...

[Craig Disher]

Sean,
Princes over Littlestone? Your thoughts?

[Sean_A]

Jud

Castle Stuart is on the docket...its the one modern in GB&I I really want to see most. 

Craig

I like a lot of the humpty bumpty at Princes and its bunker scheme is very, very good.  Like Littlestone, with a decent wind and all the crossing wind holes, its a bit too tough for me, but the handful of excellent holes is more than enough to make it an easy top 100 candidate...I know I am a lone gun on this one...no matter.  I bet that if I knew Littlestone better it would make the list.  Plus, whenever I am there the rough seems stupidly tough...an oft repeated story. 

Jon - thank you.

Thomas

Its a stab at it.  I think one can easily see the main difference between my list and Rihc's is he seems to look for challenge as a high criteria while I look for originality and odd holes as a higher priority.  I never finish a game of golf and wish the course was harder    I absolutely think that many champ courses sacrifice too much in orignality and unusual holes for the sake of very predictable difficulty...hence the reason not many make it really high on my list. 

Ciao     

[Bill_McBride]

Sean,
Princes over Littlestone? Your thoughts?

Aargh. 

[Philip Gawith]

Fantastic list Sean. It requires some pondering!

 It is very hard to believe that you will still think there are so many superior links to Dornoch following your spring visit (when will you be there?)!

Philip

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean pleased to see Knole Park one of my under the radar favourites getting a look in. Have you ever played Wildernese next door? It's one of Kent's more up market clubs and usually in fabulous condition.

Bloody rough, we need GM grass that doesn't grow in warm and damp conditions!

[Brent Hutto]

I've only played the one time at Littlestone (thanks, Craig!) and it had very severe rough that particular day. Not a whole lot of breeze but enough to make the rough pretty much constantly in play.

I've played at Princes a couple times. Once with a similar presentation to my day at Littlestone except with a strong wind. Absolutely brutal, lost ball extravaganza for myself and even for the much better player who was hosting me. Then I returned several years later to find the rough trimmed back to a manageable ankle-deep to slightly higher level. Also moderate breeze instead of heavy wind.

Under those conditions it was a wonderful course and I was totally aware of the hump and bumps to which Sean refers. It's a very fine course which gets bonus points in my book for being 27 holes, although the third nine (is it called Himalaya or something?) was in scruffy condition.

I'd love to see both Princes and Littlestone back to back under conditions where the rough is not such a constant and penal factor. I think there are more memorable holes at Littlestone and it is more compellingly situated. Not sure it has quite the turf undulation that one finds at Princes, Deal or Sandwich.

[Martin Toal]

I played with a 17 capper...he lost 19 balls [at RCD] and the shots weren't that loose.  Maybe the course is wider now?

I arranged a +1 handicapper colleague to play RCD in an Open comp, played at around 6500 yards and he played with a 17 handicapper and something similar happened. Maybe the same guy?

The +1 had a 74 and said it was one of his best rounds. 15-20 mph wind and juicy rough and gorse, so he hit a lot of conservative fairway finding tee shots so often needed a good bit of artillery for the approach shots too.

[Mark Chaplin]

I think we have to remember links courses reflect the monthly conditions far more than heaths or parkland courses. Get a dry one and the rough thins out and plays simply, have a warm wet month or two and the rough will be thick and juicy. Its easy to say the green staff should get on top of it but most clubs only have a handful of staff and if the rough is growing like crazy then so are the tees, greens and fairways.

I'm a big fan of Littlestone, its a very pleasant place to play golf, when I grow up I want to be Craig Disher!

[Garland Bayley]

I think we have to remember links courses reflect the monthly conditions far more than heaths or parkland courses. Get a dry one and the rough thins out and plays simply, have a warm wet month or two and the rough will be thick and juicy. Its easy to say the green staff should get on top of it but most clubs only have a handful of staff and if the rough is growing like crazy then so are the tees, greens and fairways.

I'm a big fan of Littlestone, its a very pleasant place to play golf, when I grow up I want to be Craig Disher!

On consecutive days Saunton is vastly different than Bude, which is less than 25 miles away. Saunton clearly has more money and green staff, but vastly less favorable playing conditions.

In my experience, I'm not sure your generalization works.

[Mark Chaplin]

How did they differ?

[Bill_McBride]

I think we have to remember links courses reflect the monthly conditions far more than heaths or parkland courses. Get a dry one and the rough thins out and plays simply, have a warm wet month or two and the rough will be thick and juicy. Its easy to say the green staff should get on top of it but most clubs only have a handful of staff and if the rough is growing like crazy then so are the tees, greens and fairways.

I'm a big fan of Littlestone, its a very pleasant place to play golf, when I grow up I want to be Craig Disher!

Well yes, because I think he's also a member of Deal and Rye!   And they call Ran "Golf's Most Beloved!"

[Mark Chaplin]

Bill I do believe you are quite right. 

[Niall C]

Sean

Let me ask you, of the courses that you haven't played but are on your list to play, which do you suspect would make the top bracket ?

Niall

[Ryan Coles]

Sean

Was Wentworth left out or have you not played?

[Ryan Coles]

I think we have to remember links courses reflect the monthly conditions far more than heaths or parkland courses. Get a dry one and the rough thins out and plays simply, have a warm wet month or two and the rough will be thick and juicy. Its easy to say the green staff should get on top of it but most clubs only have a handful of staff and if the rough is growing like crazy then so are the tees, greens and fairways.

I'm a big fan of Littlestone, its a very pleasant place to play golf, when I grow up I want to be Craig Disher!

On consecutive days Saunton is vastly different than Bude, which is less than 25 miles away. Saunton clearly has more money and green staff, but vastly less favorable playing conditions.

In my experience, I'm not sure your generalization works.

I believe your generalising about conditions at Saunton.

I think you saw it after the Braunton floods. In my 30 odds visits, conditions have usually been what you expect from a championship links course. i.e. dry and firm after a couple of weeks without much rain.

[Sean_A]

Nial

To be honest, I would suprised if any other course in GB&I would make my top bracket (top 6).  That said, I am hoping Kingsbarns, Castle Stuart and West Sussex make a good run.  I do think there is a good possibility that courses from the second group could move up.  Especially Ballybunion (and honestly don't think I have played a better design in GB&I) and Co Down if I knew them better and the rough ever becomes better tamed.  Maybe even Dornoch, but that is a big leap.  The real problem is going back to these big name courses because I don't have the appetite for the big green fees.  As luck would have it, I will see Prestwick, Dornoch and Castle Stuart later this year.  Prestwick may be a prime candidate to get moved down.  I shall see if the lesser holes at the far end of the links hold up as well as memory suggests.   

Ryan

I left Wentworth out because it has changed quite a bit since I saw it.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

I think we have to remember links courses reflect the monthly conditions far more than heaths or parkland courses. Get a dry one and the rough thins out and plays simply, have a warm wet month or two and the rough will be thick and juicy. Its easy to say the green staff should get on top of it but most clubs only have a handful of staff and if the rough is growing like crazy then so are the tees, greens and fairways.

I'm a big fan of Littlestone, its a very pleasant place to play golf, when I grow up I want to be Craig Disher!

On consecutive days Saunton is vastly different than Bude, which is less than 25 miles away. Saunton clearly has more money and green staff, but vastly less favorable playing conditions.

In my experience, I'm not sure your generalization works.

I believe your generalising about conditions at Saunton.

I think you saw it after the Braunton floods. In my 30 odds visits, conditions have usually been what you expect from a championship links course. i.e. dry and firm after a couple of weeks without much rain.

I saw it after three weeks of no rain.

[Ryan Coles]

Was it the season following the winter where the course was closed for months due to it being under water? The one where they were playing preferred lies in May?

[Garland Bayley]

I believe your generalising about conditions at Saunton.
...

I believe that it is specific details that conflict with a generalization that is necessary to nullify the generalization.
I stated a specific pair of days conflicted with the generalization. Which part of specific pair of days do you consider generalizing?

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