[Mark_Fine]

You are a golf course architect with lots of designs under your belt.  It is 2030 and green speeds are now averaging 15 or more on the stimp meter with all the new grasses and maintenance practices that have been introduced.  What do you do recommend doing with the greens on your older golf courses that are now borderline unplayable? 

Also the average golfer is now driving the ball nearly 300 yards (which is still far shorter than the pros who are routinely surpassing 400 yards with most of their tee shots).   What changes if any do you recommend for your older shorter designs? 

[jeffwarne]

1. Put up safety nets
2.Double your insurance
3. Grow olives
4. Get a really good job so you can afford such a course


your post would've seemed preposterous 20 years ago and sadly it's a harsh reality within your timeline.
the answer is so simple-the predictable reactions so expensive

[Randy Thompson]

Cheapest solution would be to go to a three inch diameter cup!

[jeffwarne]

Cheapest solution would be to go to a three inch diameter cup!

I'm sure your response is tongue in cheek.....
but it sounds like a USGA "solution"
rather than addressing the issue itself i.e. the distance the ball travels (hopefully exaggerated by Mark) a smaller cup, or any other "solution" besides shrinking the scale (i,e, the distance the ball travels)spits in the face of sustainability and creates multiple unintended consequences that change the balance of skills and strategies in the game.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I'm for rolling the ball back, don't get me wrong.


But I'm also under the impression that nothing has changed with the ball since the pro-v1 so that won't be the cause of any further increased distance.


Is this an incorrect assumption? I really hope not.

[jeffwarne]

I'm for rolling the ball back, don't get me wrong.


But I'm also under the impression that nothing has changed with the ball since the pro-v1 so that won't be the cause of any further increased distance.


Is this an incorrect assumption? I really hope not.

because the USGA told you that?
wait till next year then -it won't be changing again...just another round of "fitness" for Fred Couples
but true, it's not just the ball...

[Tom_Doak]

You are a golf course architect with lots of designs under your belt.  It is 2030 and green speeds are now averaging 15 or more on the stimp meter with all the new grasses and maintenance practices that have been introduced.  What do you do recommend doing with the greens on your older golf courses that are now borderline unplayable? 

Also the average golfer is now driving the ball nearly 300 yards (which is still far shorter than the pros who are routinely surpassing 400 yards with most of their tee shots).   What changes if any do you recommend for your older shorter designs?

Most architects will then be happy to charge big fees to redesign their own courses.  [Some do now.]


I would recommend leaving the courses alone.


When the average guy drives it 300 yards then the greens ought to be "borderline unplayable".  And the only way to STOP this "progress" you are talking about is to draw a line in the sand.   If architects keep making greens flatter, then superintendents and green committees will keep making them faster ... but not many will keep making the greens faster when it means they become unplayable.

[John Kavanaugh]

Where are these courses where the greens keep getting faster for everyday play? I'm in favor of a unicorn scenario when all I can find is Big Foot.

[jeffwarne]

Just got a funny IM.


"In 2030 we'll list the setup guy"


Don't we kind've already do that with all the silly interview glorification of moving a few tees around?

[Mark_Fine]

It will be very interesting to see how the game continues to evolve.  I sure hope we don't see average green speeds at 15 and the ball going farther and farther.  It not only makes the game more expensive, it makes the game take much longer to play.  Time and cost will continue to be what holds back growth of the sport.  If we do get to this point I am not sure what architects will do if anything to their golf courses.  Smaller cups would make the game even more difficult and time consuming and larger cups would only enable the progression of green speed and distance.  Time will tell!

[Thomas Dai]

Water availability?
Land availability/suitability?
Chemical usage?
Population expansion and housing needs?
Etc
Etc


Just some things to consider from a 2030 foresight perspective.


Atb

[Adrian_Stiff]

You can't really get to 15.


At about 15- 15.2 stimp and 1 degree of slope the ball will move off its dimple.


You need 1 degree of slope to drain the water. Speeds of greens will get slower in the UK and many other places with the chemical bans, I can see us going to 6mm to help combat disease problems, 10 stimp will be the new 15. I know you mean this tongue in cheek but the game needs new governor's, certainly in the UK our leaders heads are pickled with nonsense. They do everything they can to drive people away from the sport.


We now have people not wanting to play in the  competitions because of the 90% handicap allowance rule in the pairs, some people get two shots on a hole and we get 52 points winning the pairs stableford, others give up citing they can't play to their false handicap and have lost interest. As soon as members diss the competitions there is less point in being a member.


Well done pickleheads exactly what I said would happen when they suggested it.

[Jim Nugent]

Instead of making the hole smaller, you make it bigger.  That lets you build and maintain more slope/contours in your greens. 

Build six par 3s (lengths commensurate with the new driving distances) and maybe 2 or 3 par 5s. 

Build 3 to 4 short par 4s (325 to 375). 

Average golfers better have drones or something to track their tee shots, or they will likely lose a boatload of balls.   

[Tim Gavrich]

With apologies to my departed hero Leonard Cohen:


"Gimme back my spoons and cleeks
My un-fairways, my shaggy greens
Gimme Ray and give me Harry Vardon


Gimme back my wooden shafts,
My button-downs, my plus-four slacks,
I've seen the future, brother, IT IS MURDER."


https://youtu.be/rH1XTOBF0YQ

[Willie_Dow]

Mark:  Your argument suggests that we should keep the "short course" concept in view, for all courses today.


Speed of play will come into play, tee box locations will dominate design - with the approach shot very much in mind - and the game will be more fun, than just a walk in the park.

[Jeff_Brauer]

First, I will be 75 years old, and probably won't care, but can envision coming out to some of my old courses for consulting, not much else.


It occurs that if the guys who now hit it 250-270 increase 10% to 275-300, and who now play the second to back tees, at about 6800, will move back to 7000-7200.  The biggest change will be increasing the typically small back tees a bit, but keep the forward and middle tees about as is.


As to green speeds, maybe golf will allow some stickum on the golf balls for putting, or introduce a special putting ball that reduces putt roll distance......well, a lot of you guys called for ball rollbacks, and there it is.

[Ian Andrew]

Mark,


My answer is water will eventually change all conversations.
If water is fully commoditized - I think this will come - it will change the game entirely.
Eliminate locations where you can play, demand the game be played inside smaller spaces, change for economic survival...
Water represents the potential Black Swan Event for golf ...

[Thomas Dai]

Mark,
My answer is water will eventually change all conversations.
If water is fully commoditized - I think this will come - it will change the game entirely.
Eliminate locations where you can play, demand the game be played inside smaller spaces, change for economic survival...
Water represents the potential Black Swan Event for golf ...

+1 - see reply 10 above.


When countries (eg China) are aiming to build massive tunnel systems to divert a huge river that doesn’t just flow through territory they control (eg the Brahmaputra) it kind of gives a clue as to the future.


Atb

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