The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024

[BCrosby]

Crusty Jim says, "The Olympics have evolved into highly nationalistic events, much as the Ryder Cup has. I fear that with competitors from countries all over the world, golf at the Olympics will be much like the boxing events."

I couldn't agree more. Rabid nationalism and golf do not mix well.

Bob

[Adam Warren]

If Athens and Rio made the cut, there's no reason to think Boston wouldn't. Boston could host the Olympics this summer and be better prepared than either of those hosts. Given the politics behind the selection, it's impossible to know which way the decision will go. Boston might not be the best choice, but it's a hell of a lot better than venues that have been chosen in the past.

I see your point, but from a social standpoint I think you would agree most of Athens and Rio for the most part are open, receptive, and happy to have the world in their city to host the Olympics.  I'm not trying to offend here, but I just don't think Bostonians for the most part would be as receptive to having the world in their city.  Couple that in with the way Boston is set up, and I just don't know if I can see it.  Willing hosts will be crucial, and Bostonians aren't always known for their hospitality.  I have a good friend from the area, have been there a couple times, and have met a number of nice people from Boston, but I am doubting they are happy about the prospect of an Olympics in their town. Maybe I'm way off here.

Adam-I have to say that I marveled at the ignorance of your post when I read it. A couple of visits to Boston qualifies you to make those statements? Come on man you have to be kidding right?

I guess my ignorance has been picked up by others in this thread.  The Ryder Cup being mentioned provides an excellent example.  I have my own experience as well as the opinions of Bostonians of which I respect their opinion to base my remarks on.  That's good enough for me.

As for the southern comparison and racism....excellent point to take us back to the 60's.  Atlanta being a major market filled with people from all over the world and all races, that point hardly lands. 

[Dan_Callahan]

As for the southern comparison and racism....excellent point to take us back to the 60's.  Atlanta being a major market filled with people from all over the world and all races, that point hardly lands. 

Really? Let's play Family Feud with people from other parts of the world. Ask them the top 5 things they think of when they hear: The American south is ...?

100% chance "racist" is in the top 5.

Not saying it's fair. Just saying that if you're going to deny Boston as a host because New Englanders have a "reputation" for not being hospitable, you should probably disqualify the South as well.

[PCCraig]

The Country Club is a very worthy potential host site of the Olympics. If the Olympics do indeed head to Boston, it would be great to see the world's best golfers playing such a great classic golf course.

[Brad Tufts]

I dunno...I was 7 in '88 so I wasn't there...sounds like my grandparents marshalling one of the holes had their hands full.  I had tickets in '99, but alas, I made my college golf team as a freshman and had to play a tourney at Taconic.

Bostonians like to have a good time, sometimes at the expense of being proper.  This is why sports fits us so well...even though we may be confused when Curtis Strange isn't allowed to cross-check Nicklaus in the chin, or when Gentle Ben can't send a goon after Jose Maria in exchange for 5 minutes in the box for a 4th liner.

Sorry (the royal) we ruined your time at TCC...you'd have more fun at the Bruins!  I think Mass has one of the country's more avid golf communities, as we value our rounds more than down south because we have 4 months/year where playing at all is difficult.

What is lost is TCC has undergone a terrific tranformation to maintain its challenge and its historical integrity, as the amateur showed.  Not speaking for the club, but I might guess newer blood on their committees would jump at the chance to have the Olympic tourney/matches at TCC.

[Adam Warren]

As for the southern comparison and racism....excellent point to take us back to the 60's.  Atlanta being a major market filled with people from all over the world and all races, that point hardly lands. 

Really? Let's play Family Feud with people from other parts of the world. Ask them the top 5 things they think of when they hear: The American south is ...?

100% chance "racist" is in the top 5.

Not saying it's fair. Just saying that if you're going to deny Boston as a host because New Englanders have a "reputation" for not being hospitable, you should probably disqualify the South as well.

Ever heard of the term "Southern Hospitality?"  That is probably a more likely term someone has heard than "Southern Racism."  Ask some 30 somethings and younger which they have heard more about.  That's stuff we learn about in the history books.  Just like the Boston Tea Party.  Unfortunately, thats not what I think of when talking about Boston.  I enjoy Boston, but from an outsiders persepective, especially as a foreigner, I don't see it being a healthy environment for an Olympics.  I have my opinion and I share said opinion with a number of Bostonians.

[Mike_Young]

Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.

And the south has a pretty solid reputation for racism, but that didn't prevent the Olympics from going to Atlanta. If the selection is going to be based on the personalities of the locals, we ought to just hold every Olympics in Ireland.

The South has no more racism than anywhere else in the US....actually I think the "busing issue" was in Boston...right???  I tire of hearing about all the racism in the South and then go to places like Northern Michigan and realize there is no racisn there only because there was never a need....and a few of my friends of color have come back to the south because they feel racism is much less a facotr here than in other parts of the country. 

[JMEvensky]

Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.

And the south has a pretty solid reputation for racism, but that didn't prevent the Olympics from going to Atlanta. If the selection is going to be based on the personalities of the locals, we ought to just hold every Olympics in Ireland.

The South has no more racism than anywhere else in the US....actually I think the "busing issue" was in Boston...right???  I tire of hearing about all the racism in the South and then go to places like Northern Michigan and realize there is no racisn there only because there was never a need....and a few of my friends of color have come back to the south because they feel racism is much less a facotr here than in other parts of the country. 

The worst racism I've ever witnessed was a Celtic/76er playoff game at Boston Garden. I heard things shouted at Moses Malone I'd never heard before--and I grew up in Memphis.

Boston and the South are just like every place else.

[Brad Tufts]

I think the racism angle is moot at this point for South or North in the US in terms of this argument.  It's the same important problem everywhere.

What I take issue with is the thinly-veiled "People from Boston are d*cks" idea from a few in this thread.  I've never been compelled to say anything against anyone's city on GCA...

Please define "healthy environment".  And if Boston is an "unhealthy environment," does the Olympics have a recent history of avoiding "unhealthy environments?" (Athens, Beijing, Sochi...)  I'd say Boston's plan is 10x healthier than any of those...

So the locals are only 50-50 so far...if Boston gets it, the dissenters shrug and grumble...it's not like they are assaulting visitors!  As for Boston "not being set up to handle the Olympics"....the Plan involves about 75% pre-existing venues, with a swim center, velodrome, and main stadium the major construction points.  The swimming and velodrome goes to one of the local colleges (they will share funding I believe), and the Olympic stadium is partly funded by the Krafts to eventually be the soccer stadium for the Revolution.  I'm relatively indifferent to the whole idea, but I think the Plan is sound and has addressed many of the initial concerns of the public.

AGAIN, I will try to bring it back to GCA by saying that TCC is head and shoulders the best venue, if golf is still an Olympic sport by then.  Maybe have the men play at TCC, and the women at Essex, home of the Curtis sisters and the recent Curtis Cup?

[David Whitmer]

Just an honest question, as I don't live in Boston: in 1988 and 1999, the US Open and Ryder Cup were THE sporting event going on at the time, and as such they seemed to bring a few very vocal idiots as spectators. But if the Olympics are in Boston, and there are many sporting competitions going on at the same time, might the very vocal idiots go elsewhere, leaving more die-hard golf fans to go watch the action at TCC?

[Dan_Callahan]

What I take issue with is the thinly-veiled "People from Boston are d*cks" idea from a few in this thread.  I've never been compelled to say anything against anyone's city on GCA...

This is what I was trying to get at. I'm not saying I think the South is racist. I'm saying the South has had a reputation for racism. They started a war over it if I'm recalling my history classes correctly.

My point being that the"reputation" of a site has clearly NEVER been a factor in selecting an Olympic host. Nazi Germany? Communist China with all their human rights issues? Sochi?

Boston is no better or worse than any of the other options in terms of the personality of the locals. There are incredibly nice people in Boston and there are dicks. Traffic would be an issue, but no worse than it's been at other recent locations. With all the college facilities available, there is less of a need to build new stuff for a once-in-a-lifetime event. So we wouldn't be throwing away money as so many countries do for the prestige of hosting an Olympics.

In my opinion, it would be a major headache, but it would be amazing.

[Amol Yajnik]

Just an honest question, as I don't live in Boston: in 1988 and 1999, the US Open and Ryder Cup were THE sporting event going on at the time, and as such they seemed to bring a few very vocal idiots as spectators. But if the Olympics are in Boston, and there are many sporting competitions going on at the same time, might the very vocal idiots go elsewhere, leaving more die-hard golf fans to go watch the action at TCC?

I would agree with this, and also say that a fair number of residents would choose to leave Boston for the duration of the Olympics and rent their places out to tourists as well. 

To bring it back to golf, I do wonder how the Olympics in 2024 affect the possibility of TCC getting the US Open in 2022.  It seemed like the USGA was pleased with how the golf course played during the 2013 US Amateur, but hosting the US Open on that property would have to be Merion-like in terms of attendance and where they would set up hospitality and such.

[Brad Tufts]

I like Dan's last sentence!  My opinion exactly.

Also, Amol brings up a great point.  If the powers-at-be at TCC that have turned around the stance of "no more major events" get the Olympic tourney, I cannot see two huge events like that going to the same course within 2 years...I doubt even the club would be fired up about that.

All guesses though...I don't pretend to know the actual thoughts of the TCC leadership.

[Adam Warren]

I obviously didn't say I don't like Bostonians or think they are all d**** since I have several friends from there and have largely enjoyed my trips there (though it has been several years since my last trip there).  Some of those other places mentioned, there aren't a ton of suitable options in those countries, maybe one or two more.  My argument is Boston is well down the list of suitable cities in the US to host an Olympics.  Why go on down the list like that?  To avoid going back to somewhere we have been before?  I'm not sure thats a great argument.  Would it be great to see the northeast get an Olympics?  Absolutely.  Do they deserve one?  Absolutely.  Are the cities in the northeast set up well for Olympics?  That's a tougher question...

Wouldn't TCC be basically the only spot worthy of consideration for the Olympics in Boston?  Any other places?

[Adam Lawrence]

Unless the IOC comes to its senses after next year and limits the event to amateurs, I can't imagine anything that would make Mr. Ouimet roll over more in his grave...

I have no idea why people keep raising the idea of limiting Olympic golf to amateurs. Does anyone really believe it is conceivable that golf would have been accepted into the Games if the proposition was to have people no-one had ever heard of playing for the medals?

Exactly. It shouldn't be an Olympic sport at all. Tennis hasn't worked, soccer hasn't and neither will golf.

Erm, Brian, you are aware that football has been an Olympic sport since the second modern Games in 1900?

[Amol Yajnik]

I obviously didn't say I don't like Bostonians or think they are all d**** since I have several friends from there and have largely enjoyed my trips there (though it has been several years since my last trip there).  Some of those other places mentioned, there aren't a ton of suitable options in those countries, maybe one or two more.  My argument is Boston is well down the list of suitable cities in the US to host an Olympics.  Why go on down the list like that?  To avoid going back to somewhere we have been before?  I'm not sure thats a great argument.  Would it be great to see the northeast get an Olympics?  Absolutely.  Do they deserve one?  Absolutely.  Are the cities in the northeast set up well for Olympics?  That's a tougher question...

Wouldn't TCC be basically the only spot worthy of consideration for the Olympics in Boston?  Any other places?

Did you miss where the US Olympic Committee took proposals from 4 cities and then earlier this year decided that Boston was their nominee?  The other cities that submitted proposals were Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Washington, DC.  Obviously I'm biased because I live here, but to say that Boston is "well down the list" is just not right, at least in the US Olympic Committe's opinion.

Re: other courses in the Boston area, there are few courses around here that could realistically handle the modern male professional game.  Obviously, TPC Boston is where the PGA Tour plays every year, but I can't imagine a scenario where Olympic golf is played in July or August and then the regular PGA Tour tournament at TPC Boston comes on Labor Day weekend in the same year.  Brad brought up having the men play one course and the women play another course, but I doubt the organizing committee would have that type of vision.

Perhaps they could widen their scope and play at a course that was pretty far away from metro Boston, but one of the big things they have stressed is a "compact" games in terms of where the venues are, and TCC far and away fits that criteria compared to other top courses in the area.

[Brad Tufts]

I suppose they could use the International...no shortage of length there.  Could also spread the even over two courses on site.  The Pines would have to be renovated though...much of it is pleasant but boring.

There really aren't other venues other than TPC, TCC, or the above.  Even if you go 100 miles in every direction, there still are very few.

Could resurrect the Ponky Bethpage-treatment idea...that would be fantastic someday but would only mean more spending for the Olympics...

[Adam Warren]

Posted without comment.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/sports/olympics/in-reversal-boston-2024-wants-a-vote-on-the-olympics.html?_r=0&referrer=

[Sean_A]

Its pretty obvious the Os are not the pinnacle (or even close) for mens soccer...waste of time in the Os so far as I am concerned...same for basketball...same for tennis.  The only sport which has its pinnacle clearly outside of the Os which works is hockey...and that is mostly because of Cold War hatred (even boxing is dull these days), the international flavour of the players and hockey's minority status as a major sport...but remember, for most people even hockey doesn't matter.  Golf doesn't belong in the Os either...its more about supposedly growing the game...same ole crap from the talking heads.  

Oh, btw - Boston does suck...more specifically the Bs and their supporters    

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Brian,

I think football has got it just right at the Olympics in that it is the younger players that are involved. Golf would be the perfect sport if they kept it to the amateurs and not the professionals. I agree with you on tennis but there is the crux of the issue. The Olympics has become so big an undertaking it has to make massive amounts of money to pay for itself. It needs the big names to boost the TV and sponsorship franchises.

Jon

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

In the politically correct climate of the Olympics, I would assume a new course or a drastic re-do would be required in order to add a female designer to the mix.

[Stephen Davis]

Posted without comment.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/sports/olympics/in-reversal-boston-2024-wants-a-vote-on-the-olympics.html?_r=0&referrer=

I live where the U.S. Olympic Commitee is located and the people who I know that are highly involved in the Olympics are very unhappy with the organizers of the Boston bid. Every voting member I have talked to is especially frustrated because in their minds LA was the best place for the U.S. to get the bid, however, politics took over and Boston got the nod. Hind site is 20/20 as they say.

[Adam Warren]

Not seeing a lot of those that were disagreeing with me about Boston residents wanting an Olympics rushing to discount the article I posted...

[Mark Steffey]

Not seeing a lot of those that were disagreeing with me about Boston residents wanting an Olympics rushing to discount the article I posted...

the slant on the offer to put this on a ballot was only "after the cmte has a chance to make their case" which means business as usual through 2015 and maybe a ballot spot in 2016 at the earliest.  so this is a long way away and the hacks in position now will be paid handsomely for 'work' the next 18-36 months.

[Dan_Callahan]

Not seeing a lot of those that were disagreeing with me about Boston residents wanting an Olympics rushing to discount the article I posted...

Not sure who this is directed to, but I certainly never said anything about whether or not there is support for the Olympics among Bostonians. In fact, a majority of my friends think it would be a huge pain in the ass. I, on the other hand, am willing to deal with the gridlock and logistical mess that occurs at ALL Olympic venues if it means having the event so close to home.