Photo Tour - Chambers Bay - US Open Edition - 1st Hole

[RJ_Daley]

I'm just getting to this thread now.  Thank you Richard.  It is obvious we have an excellent tour host with 'real' on the ground benefit of knowing the course well and a good writer.  This should run many pages and is off to a great start with the excellent questions and answers.  I know I'm just preaching to the choir, but a superior effort like Richard's here can't go un-thanked IMHO.   

Whistling Straits has the same slippery slopes on the manufactured clumpy fescue covered dunes, and dry conditions on the fescue and heat make the footing like a slip and slide.  But, they are great vantage points.  I wore soft spikes the several days I went to first PGA there and watched my wife in tennys slip often. 

I only walked the grow-in version of CB a few weeks before the soft opening.  Of course much of the subsequent multitude of GCA.com threads have centered around the fescue turf conditions and the long agonizing process of keeping it healthy.  Correct me if I am wrong, but has the course ever seen what would be deemed "Major tornament ready' throughout the entirety of all 18 greens and surrounds?  I'm not talking eyecandy greenery and lush.  I'm just talking about the kind of turf consistency where these selections of shot both playing the ground into greens on 2nd shot approaches or the flop, bump or chip from surrounds will get the sort of consistency of turf, not impaired by ground under repair and endless unhealed divots? Do you think the super and staff can do this, Richard?  Thanks.

[Richard Choi]

I wonder if there's any chance they'll put stands on top of those hills? Not sure how great it would look on TV, but it would address the safety issue and make for a unique spectating experience.

Guy, the top of the dunes on the right of the first hole is graded and wired for hospitality tents. I am guessing the most favored USGA supporters will have their corporate tents above the first hole. Should have a very nice view of the finish as well.

[Richard Choi]

Correct me if I am wrong, but has the course ever seen what would be deemed "Major tornament ready' throughout the entirety of all 18 greens and surrounds?  I'm not talking eyecandy greenery and lush.  I'm just talking about the kind of turf consistency where these selections of shot both playing the ground into greens on 2nd shot approaches or the flop, bump or chip from surrounds will get the sort of consistency of turf, not impaired by ground under repair and endless unhealed divots? Do you think the super and staff can do this, Richard?  Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words RJ.

Obviously, US Amateur was deemed successful so I guess you could say it has been major tournament ready for awhile. In reality, there has been several problem child greens (#4, #7, #12, and #13 to be exact) that have had conditioning issues since the beginning. With the new greens on #4, #7 and #13, consistency (in speed) between the holes have been questionable at the very least.

To address this issue, Chambers severely cut back on number of tee times available. I would say it is half what it is normally. They have also been using temp greens throughout the year to encourage growth. The last report I read said the greens as a whole are in the best shape they have ever been this winter. I have not checked in person within last couple of months, so I cannot say for sure.

I do believe that almost all of the issues with conditioning will be sorted out by June as they are committed to do almost everything possible to make it not an issue (everything short of completely shutting down the course). I am not planning to play much at all Chambers between now and June because of this.

P.S. I will say that temp greens at Chambers are as good as any greens anywhere else. The fact that it is fescue from tee to green really helps in the regard. Playing temp greens was actually great for me since it felt like I was playing a brand new hole. Chambers with all temp greens would still be the best course in the state.

[BCowan]

''While I do not believe the fairways will be as firm as it played during US Amateur for US Open, I believe Chambers Bay made a wise decision to soften the hump (H) short right of the green so that the kick forward will not be so violent (one of the very few changes that I agree with). ''

Richard,

   I didn't really watch the tourney this past summer, but I am curious as to how Lee Trevino in his prime would have done with a dozen balls, say 180 yards from the green.  Do you think iyo that the modern top players lack the shot-making skills of the Trevino's of the past? Could less loft and landing short of the hump make for a GIR reward?  Nice thread...

[Matthew Essig]

I wonder if there's any chance they'll put stands on top of those hills? Not sure how great it would look on TV, but it would address the safety issue and make for a unique spectating experience.

Probably not. They will probably just let people cover the dunes themselves. The stands will typically in the lower/flatter areas. There is a fair distance between the back of the first green and the walking path. There could be a small stand placed behind the green.

Rich, actually what about wind? I've really not had any wind to speak of in my 4 plays. What's June like? Are we likely to see some challenge from the elements other than of course the possibility of rain?

Either it will be sunny/calm all day or it will be a late spring Seattle day. Spring weather can be very chaotic......There could be rain/wind for 20 minutes and be sunny/calm the rest of the hour. And it will transitional weather all day.

[Richard Choi]

I didn't really watch the tourney this past summer, but I am curious as to how Lee Trevino in his prime would have done with a dozen balls, say 180 yards from the green.  Do you think iyo that the modern top players lack the shot-making skills of the Trevino's of the past? Could less loft and landing short of the hump make for a GIR reward?  Nice thread...

I marshaled for US Am (I will be doing so for US Open as well) and I saw a ton of approach shots on the first hole and there were many approach shots that I thought were ideal (about 15-20 yards short of the green with a high fade), that just ran right through the green. If you hit it any shorter it would never reach the green. It was pure luck on hitting the green. I am guessing even Trevino in his prime would have had less than %10 of his approach hold the green with the US Am set up.

[BCowan]

thanks Richard.  That is cool that you marshaled for AM and are for US open!

[Terry Lavin]

The US Am version of this course was way too quirky. The ground was overly firm and the bounces and rollouts leaned too far to random for my taste. Here's hoping that the combination of more years for maintenance practices to take hold, combined with USGA tweaks and the June weather will result in a fun and fair tournament. The Am was borderline.

[Scott Weersing]

So is the first green better with the changes made back in 2011 or was in 2012?

I played the course back in 2009 and the first green was fine but you could not miss to the left or you would end up in the 18th fairway.

Here is a thread about the changes: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48817.0.html

And here are some photos from my trip: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39125.0.html

[Richard Choi]

Judge, I agree the first two days (stroke play) of US Am set up was way too severe. I think they wanted to see exactly how firm the course can get and found out that it can get WAY firmer than they would ever want to set up.

After the stroke play, the grounds crew soak the course all night, and I thought the course played almost ideal for the match play that followed. It was firm and difficult, but not unfairly so.

With the earlier date in June, I doubt that they could even get the course as firm as it was for US Am stroke play, even if they tried. However, unless we get really unlucky with weather, the course should be at its ideal firmness by mid-June.

[Matthew Essig]

I am looking forward to this thread! I will try to help as much as possible, too! I have played the course and worked at the 2010 US Am.

I will start off by posting bits of a paper I wrote on the history of the site:

"After the United States Geological Survey had a chance to survey most of the land in the Pacific Northwest, they discovered something incredible. The material to the north of Chambers Creek was world-class sand and gravel. In the 1890s, the U.S. government hired the Pacific Bridge Company to mine gravel for use at all army forts along Puget Sound, forts within Washington State, and occasionally for forts located across the United States. When the forts were completed, the property was sold to gravel companies.

The mine on the property is world famous for its quality. The sand and gravel mined was as high quality and pure as it gets. This occurred due to the last ice age that glaciated the Puget Sound lowland. When the ice retreated, it left the mass deposit of sand and gravel. The sand and gravel is known as “Steilacoom Grade.” It was highly, highly desirable as it was so clean and pure. As a result, it took very little processing. The railroad continued to play an important role for the property as gravel companies used the railroad as a cost-effective way to sell the highly-desired product quickly. At one point, the mine produced more sand and gravel than any other mine in the country. A host of gravel companies that evolved through a bunch of mergers and acquisitions eventually formed Lone Star Northwest Sand and Gravel in 1959. Mining continued for another three decades.

It wasn’t until the early 1990s that the Lone Star Northwest Sand and Gravel’s mining lease ran out. Pierce County officials revealed they had something else in mind for the property. After 100 years of industrial use, Pierce County reclaimed the Chambers Creek property for the public. Today, the property is called the Chambers Creek Regional Park. On the southern bank of Chambers Creek, the Chambers Bay Marina replaces the old mills. The railroad remains, with BNSF and passenger trains passing by the park serving as a reminder of the chaotic history this piece of property has gone through in the past 400 years. A bridge over the railroad tracks allows public access to a beach that was disconnected from society since the time of the Steilacoom Tribe. A golf course is the centerpiece of the park. While golf courses are typically criticized for being hazardous overall to the environment, this particular one is special. It has won national awards for using little water, fertilizer, and preventing other environmental risks every year it has been open, and it was built using the same sand that came from the mine.

Pierce County has done a remarkable job cleaning up and recommissioning the land. With the help of Tacoma, University Place was able to grow into the town it is today, and vice-versa. The park has become one of jewels along Puget Sound, a  gem that not only meets, but surpasses the jewel that the Steilacoom Tribe saw the land as. It is so special that Pierce County pushed for national attention, and it received it. In the summer of 2015, the United States Golf Association will hold the U.S. Open at Chambers Bay. Millions of people from around the world will be able to see just how remarkable the property is."

[Richard Choi]

Scott, the green is better today than when it opened. In addition to the softening of the slope in front-right, the intermediate ledge between the green and the 18th fairway was better shaped to catch more errant shots. Most putts that roll off the green should stay there and go no further.

There will still be many approach shots during US Open that hit the green and end up in the 18th fairway, but if you know how to play this hole properly, it should not be a major problem.

[Matthew Essig]

Scott, the green is better today than when it opened. In addition to the softening of the slope in front-right, the intermediate ledge between the green and the 18th fairway was better shaped to catch more errant shots. Most putts that roll off the green should stay there and go no further.

There will still be many approach shots during US Open that hit the green and end up in the 18th fairway, but if you know how to play this hole properly, it should not be a major problem.

As Rich has said before, the problem with the old green was with very firm and fast conditions, a good shot was not rewarded, but severely punished by rolling all the way down the hill to the 18th fairway.

Not only was the kick board short right softened, but the swale in the left center of the green (just behind 2) was softened, too, to help keep balls from rolling uncontrollably from right to left. The green is improved with the changes.

[Matt Bielawa]

Too Funny.  Rich, I was literally about to type a message saying it's about time to get rid of the pouting kitty....things are looking up!  Then I refreshed the thread, and there it was!

[Greg Gilson]

Richard, I want to thank you , in advance, for undertaking this task! What a great start.

I, too, fell in love with this course during an all too short (2 round) visit a couple of years ago. I still can recall EVERY hole and that's a great recommendation coming from me.

Thanks again Richard. I'm looking forward to the walk.

[Dave McCollum]

Richard,

This thread should be amusing as it evolves and more so when we get to the Open.  Take your time, Rich, do it right, and this could be the most informative guide to a US Open course ever produced because there will be so many options depending on conditions and your experience and knowledge.  The caddies, coaches and players might even look at it and thank you for your effort.  For Treehouse nuts it’s a great opportunity to showcase golf course architecture by cranking up the footlights and putting the course on the biggest stage with the best actors assembled to audition for the leading roles.  For American golf one can only hope that a steady diet of this style of golf—Pinehurst, Hoylake, CBay, TOC, WStraits, Troon, Erin Hills, etc.—opens some eyes and softens some prejudices that this style is not some antiquated, quirky British aberration of the game.  If the stars align, the players endorse it as they did at Pinehurst, the weather cooperates, and they put it on TV, maybe, just maybe, a few will notice.   (I have my doubts because as I’m typing the Golf Channel is broadcasting the Humana from Palm Springs and gushing about perfection, golf in the dome, and golfers are shooting 9 under for 9 holes, while the country shivers.)

Whatever, well done.  As you suggest, at least for the Treehouse crowd, this is your destiny.  I’m rooting for you to do it well.  For me and the rest of us, I hope we live up to the “Best Of” predictions.  This tread seems to have that potential to be really special if we listen more than we speak and only speak when we have something to say.  We’ll see how it goes.  Personally, I hope the thread stays on point, doesn’t set a cga.com world record for number of pages of narcissistic grandstanding, and retains its potential for purity of purpose—insightful information.     

I’m listening and won’t comment again.  I haven’t played the freaking course.  Let’s listen to those know her and see how real golfers try to get under her skirts.

[Colin Macqueen]

Richard,

This, I think, will end up being an extraordinary thread. Your descriptions and insights will be invaluable as the likes of me watch The U.S. Open take place.   taking Dave McC. suggestion to heart  "…I will listen more than I speak and only speak when I have something to say."  As I have never played the course this will be an easy task and I will not be butting in again but will be avidly following this thread.

The thread has the potential to outshine Pat Mucci's valiant effort to describe NGLA in his "Enchanted Journey" which has gotten to Hole #8 from memory! Thanks for this effort and I suspect as others do that it will end up in the "Best of Golf" sub-section for posterity.

Thanks Colin

[Anthony Butler]

Pete, you are correct about the dangers of the dunes. My wife fell several times during US Am. With steep slope and tall slippery fescue, the dunes can/will cause many people to slip and fall - even with golf shoes. From what I heard, USGA is limiting the ticket sales just to deal with this issue. There is enough room to host 200k spectators a day, if you really wanted to.

David, there is really no severe wind to speak of, unless there is a storm brewin'. Most likely you will see 5 to 10 mph breezes, and only in the afternoons. On most days that I play (I play very early), there is no real wind to test you. This is why firmness of the course and its flexible length will be a key to a successful US Open.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for starting this thread. I visited Chambers Bay in early December..When I think about the other courses I've been to that hosted a US Open, it sort of blows your mind to think the USGA took this on the same year they are changing broadcasters....

Probably another reason they limited ticket sales is you have to drive through a neighborhood to access the course... a two lane surface road no matter where you get off Bridgeport, which appears to be the main drag through University Place..

As an example of the existing infrastructure at Chambers Bay, the car park accommodates less than 100 cars.

I understand from talking with the assistant pro the USGA will be establishing a tent village on the dog park down near the Sound. (Right next to the working crane) This ''village" can only be accessed via a single-lane maintenance road behind the existing clubhouse. I hope Rory remembers he's on West Coast time, because it will take at least an hour just to get from the i5 exit to the course... he might have to get out and run down the hill with his golf shoes once he hits the car park..

Even though there are legitimate logistical concerns, I think the event will make for great TV. As I recall the US Amateur event was fairly windy. although that was later in the summer... a 10 mph breeze would definitely make things more interesting.

 

[RJ_Daley]

I'll bet AirB&B has an uptick in folks renting out bedrooms in their home in and around Chambers Bay neighborhoods! 

[Garland Bayley]

...

Even though there are legitimate logistical concerns, I think the event will make for great TV.
...
 

After all the address of the place is 6320 Grandview Dr.

[Richard Choi]

Thanks for all the encouragements. It is very much appreciated. If I can convey just a little bit of my love for this place to others here, I will be extremely satisfied.

One question for the folks. Should I keep to this thread for rest of the hole descriptions or should I start a new thread for every hole? I wasn't thinking of doing that, but Joe Perches suggested it and it might be easier for references. What do you guys think?

I am busy getting my #2 guide and it is already much longer than I thought it would be a for a relatively simple hole. I think I need to edit myself a bit more.

[Cliff Hamm]

Played CB a few years back...as many have said great start to a great thread...my preference is clearly to start new threads.

[Greg Gilson]

Richard, given the amount of interest already...and the discussion you are inviting...I vote for separate threads for each hole.

[Matthew Essig]

You could have 18 different threads, or you could have this one thread with an index in the first post referencing page/post # for each hole.

[Garland Bayley]

I prefer a single thread. Matthew has a good suggestion.