Hanse announced as architect for new course at Streamsong

[David Stamm]

Just announced on TGC's Morning Drive show. Great news!

[Amol Yajnik]

Course will be called Streamsong Black, target for opening that course is 2017.

[Mark McKeever]

Awesome news!

Mark

[Jud_T]

Is Gil now the hottest GCA on the planet?

[Adam Warren]

Did anyone else catch the part of the interview that he had about 800 acres to choose from and his will be on about 200 acres?  I am guessing that means a little more than 200 which would leave room for at least one more course on the land they have available.  Too early to speculate on the next architect?

[Steve Lapper]

Don't be surprised when the fourth course comes to fruition it gets a different name than a color and one very recognizable to students of golf history.

[Dan Herrmann]

This is really great news!

[Benjamin Litman]

Beginning of 2017? The intelligence I received when I was at Streamsong the last week of December was that opening would be end of 2016, so I hope "2017" means beginning of 2017.

I'm not surprised he was named (and not just because I was told he would be named)--the chef's tasting menu he and his colleagues were served at Fifty-Nine was unreal.

[Joe Bausch]

Don't be surprised when the fourth course comes to fruition it gets a different name than a color and one very recognizable to students of golf history.

Loving thIs Detective wOrk.   

[Nigel Islam]

Don't be surprised when the fourth course comes to fruition it gets a different name than a color and one very recognizable to students of golf history.

Lido?

[Jud_T]

from Matt Ginella last year:

"Another possibility for Streamsong's third course is a recreation of an American classic. Josh Lesnik and Mike Keiser are scheduled to meet with Streamsong ownership in a month, where they will discuss the possibility of a partnership in C.B. Macdonald's original Lido Course.

Keiser has been looking for the right piece of land for what was once considered the best course in the country. George Bahto, who died March 18, was the owner of the original plans for the Lido, which was on Long Island and ultimately lost to the military in 1942. Bahto, who was 83, once told me the plans are so specific that on the right piece of property, a recreation could be exact. On the sand-based topography of Streamsong, where there's 16,000 acres dedicated to the golf resort, it could be a good fit and would be quite a tribute to both Macdonald and Bahto."

[Carl Rogers]

From what I can tell Streamsong seems very out of the way .... meaing few (or no) close by off site accomodations.  will the lodge be expanded or new accomodations be created for the increased number of golfers?

[Howard Riefs]

Press release and associated coverage:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/streamsong-resort-unveils-plans-for-highly-anticipated-third-golf-course-300022879.html

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/01/gil-hanse-streamsong-resort-new-course.html

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/jan/20/streamsong-florida-gil-hanse-golfweeks-best/

Beginning of 2017? The intelligence I received when I was at Streamsong the last week of December was that opening would be end of 2016, so I hope "2017" means beginning of 2017.

It's autumn 2017, according to the press release.

From what I can teel Streamsong seems very out of the way .... meaing few (or no) close by off site accomodations.  will the lodge be expanded or new accomodations be created for the increased number of golfers?

How is Bandon any different?  Plus, Streamsong has more rooms on-property than Bandon: 226 vs 186.

[Daniel Jones]

Sounds like, as someone mentioned in a previous thread, the course will be on the land out beyond the 3rd on Red. I played the Red yesterday and made a point to look at the area while on the 3rd tee. It appears to lack the large dunes found on Red & Blue, but has the same rolling characteristics as the others. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[Jon Cavalier]

Don't be surprised when the fourth course comes to fruition it gets a different name than a color and one very recognizable to students of golf history.

Oh please, let this happen. Please.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Congratulations to Gil and his team.  This will only enhance this resort and I look forward to playing the course someday.

No need to respond to that other topic by someone who can neither spell Gil's name nor knows the difference between Boston GC and TPC Boston.  Perhaps his time would be better spent by reading the review of Rustic Canyon by this site's founder.

[Bryan Izatt]

From what I can tell Streamsong seems very out of the way .... meaing few (or no) close by off site accomodations.  will the lodge be expanded or new accomodations be created for the increased number of golfers?

The hotel has a lot of (quite spectacular) rooms already.  When I stayed there last year for the Phosphate Pheathery it was pretty much deserted.  I suspect that they need to worry about attracting more players (and stayers) before they worry about adding more rooms.  

I've been to Streamsong 6 times over the last 2 years and really enjoy the courses and conditioning and weather in the winter.  On none of the visits has getting a tee time been a problem.  I really wonder if adding another course is going to bring a great influx of players.  I was there last week and thought that business looked really good based on the parking lot.  Turned out that the PGA Tour Superstore was having an outing and had taken over the driving range with a tent village to have manufacturers display and demonstrate the new season's products to the store staff.  The hotel was pretty booked up for one night, but the courses were surprisingly open.

The caddies for the guys I was playing with said that there were 140 caddies on the roster to handle peak conditions but that 70 caddie rounds a day was more the norm. They thought the resort was still in the honeymoon phase of attracting players and thought it would tail off a bit from here.  I really wonder if a new course two years from now will attract a great number of additional players.

I have no doubt that Hanse will create a good course, although the area where the course will go looks less dramatic from a distance.  But, then, he created a fine course at Castle Stewart out of a potato field.

The sad part for me is that Streamsong will probably have priced itself out of my market by then.  The green fee was up to $225 (from $175) this year which has reached my breaking point.  The hotel price is well past my price point.  I played rounds on two consecutive days last week and drove off property for the night to avoid the hotel.  In the past, I would have walked 36 holes the second day, but was just too tired to do it this year.  Sadly, walking 36 holes a day might be in my past.  The walking only policy is certainly a deterrent for people my age or older.  But, then the old cart on cart path policy along with the $85 fore-caddie was pretty much a deterrent too.  I really don't get Streamsong's business model.

We'll just have to wait and see if the cache of a Gil Hanse course will attract enough extra players from whatever demographic they are trying to attract to make it work out economically.

 

[Steve Lapper]

I was at Streamsong over the past 4 days, playing in their Invitational. Conditions were magnificent and both courses played beautifully.

Interestingly, the Blue course played close to 2 strokes tougher than the Red and most of better players cited the difficulty of its greens as the primary reason. I'd agree with that assessment and in fairness, mention that quite a few folks struggled a wee bit with the driving lanes of the Red.

Talking with various people in-the-know, it is clear is that the golf side of the business is quite healthy and thriving, and the addition of more courses will certainly help sate the demand. More courses will also help them fill the hotel and clubhouse lodging. I'm happy to report almost all the operations across the property functioned so much better than last year and whatever kinks they'd had in the past seem to be vanishing. My only residual bitch is for 1-2 basic wooden benches outside the clubhouse so a weary 36 or 45 hole golfer can sit their arse down whilst waiting for the shuttle or valet. I won't comment on the pricing as the Invitational was a strong value for what it included.

The area for Gil's Black course will allow for plenty of sturdy dunes, water and rolling terrain. The land is by no means inconsistent with what Bill, Ben and Tom were given to work with.

As to my earlier tease for the potential fourth course......stay tuned as I believe we GCA'ers will eventually have our historical prayers answered. Mosaic is firmly committed to providing the best possible golf experience they can combined with reasonable business practices. We, they and the general public owe Richard Mack a considerable debt of gratitude  for having the vision to take a natural resources company into the golf and hospitality business...especially at a time when few others might.

[Howard Riefs]

We'll just have to wait and see if the cache of a Gil Hanse course will attract enough extra players from whatever demographic they are trying to attract to make it work out economically.

So there’s a clique of GCA aficionados who will only visit Streamsong after a Hanse course is built?

That’s a novel business strategy.

[William_G]

The area for Gil's Black course will allow for plenty of sturdy dunes, water and rolling terrain. The land is by no means inconsistent with what Bill, Ben and Tom were given to work with.

Fantastic, as the area around the RED/BLUE appears less interesting.

Where is the new course sited in relation to the current golf courses?

Thank you

[Mark Arata]

Really enjoyed the courses when i played them, not really sure I would ever find my way back there again, but if they build the Lido, I will be there on day one...what a great idea!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Hanse said the land did not have the "dunes look" of Red&Blue but that he will try to make it special as the land is "soft and flowing" Here's the video:

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/gil-hanse-announces-involvement-streamsong-course-design/

[Howard Riefs]

The area for Gil's Black course will allow for plenty of sturdy dunes, water and rolling terrain. The land is by no means inconsistent with what Bill, Ben and Tom were given to work with.

Fantastic, as the area around the RED/BLUE appears less interesting.

Where is the new course sited in relation to the current golf courses?

Thank you

It's the land adjacent to Red #3 and #4.  Essentially, south of the existing courses.

From Hanse in this Golf.com article:

“It’s similar to the other sites in that it’s sand-based, with dunes and wild-looking native grasses,” Hanse said. “But I think it’s going to feel wider and broader, with longer flowing ridges as opposed to more abrupt undulations.”

Though Hanse has yet to finalize his blueprint for the Black Course, he said he was especially excited about dunes-strewn section of the site known as The Glove, which calls to mind just that when viewed from the air. “It has a ton of possibilities,” Hanse said. “We should be able to do something pretty cool and linksy-feeling there.”

http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/gil-hanse-design-third-streamsong-course

[Ruediger Meyer]

Shouldn't they have called the third course "White Course"? Red, White and Blue would probably smarter marketing wise than red, blue and black right?

[Benjamin Litman]

A few thoughts prompted by recent replies to this thread:

Ruediger:  For patriotism's sake, maybe (I say maybe, not yes, because what happens when the fourth course comes along?); for golf's sake, no. Courtesy of Bethpage (which also has no White course), Black, Blue, and Red resonate more to golfers. My concern with the naming system at Streamsong has nothing to do with the courses but with the resort. As we were driving from the Tampa airport, my girlfriend and I both joked that the name--which I explained to her had reportedly been chosen with the goal of attracting more women and couples--sounds more appropriate for a retirement community (and not just because of the parallel with swan song).

Steve:  I could not agree more with your "residual bitch" re: the non-existent benches outside the clubhouse and the lodge. The van system is great and efficient, but benches would make it unassailable. We complained about their absence every day, twice a day. As for your comment that "[m]ore courses will also help them fill the hotel and clubhouse lodging," I can't say I understand the rationale. Can you explain?

Bryan:  I share your concerns about the business model at Streamsong. My principal concern is with the resort's alleged "peak season," which, according to the various staff we met with onsite, is from January 1 to February 15. How does any resort sustain itself with a month-and-a-half peak season? The answer: a luxury resort, and that is clearly what Streamsong is (explicitly) trying to be. But, to your point, a luxury resort with a month-and-a-half peak season will soon realize that $175 green fees don't cut it. And we know what the inevitable consequence of that will be.

As my course reviews attest, I'm a huge fan of Streamsong, and I trust that it will continue to address these and similar (relatively minor) concerns over time.

Update:  I just found this video, posted by Mosaic itself, on YouTube. If you can handle 3:44 of the soundtrack from "The Greatest Game Ever Played," it's a good look at the property on which the Black course (presumably) will be built.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2twyBVZBQQ