[Sean_A]

Rihc & Ryan

Very heavy sigh. 

Ciao

[Bob_Huntley]

Ryan,

I think I have been aound this site for over ten years, I have yet to read of anyone getting excited about dining with an R&A member.

I am sure that their are golfers, who once they get into a club of some prominence will flap their wings but we all have our foibles.

When you have reached old age some of the golfers you have detested, might show you the good grace to accept you into their foursome.

Bob

[BCrosby]

I am late reading David's piece. Well done. It sounds like a delightful, if not perversely odd, event.

I wish I was qualified to participate.

Bob

[John Mayhugh]

I just now had a chance to read this essay. 

The author is a fortunate man.  While some might view the same as elitist, I don't judge it that way. These are clearly people that love the game and competition, and seem to understand the value of some fun at the same time.  This type of commitment to tradition ought to be celebrated, and I'm happy that David shared it with us.

I suspect Rye in January is about as compelling an argument for match play as you can find.

[James Boon]

I know in the past I've had a pop at the Halford Hewitt at Deal and other such matches. Sure they are long standing, full of history, competitive, played on great courses, but I never understood how anyone who isnt from one of the various schools involved, could find them interesting? But then it was pointed out to me that I will watch the Boat Race on TV... 

However, there is something about the Presidents Putter that fascinates me?! I think its probably the time of year and therefore the conditions its played under, that for some bizarre reasons I feel some sort of affinity with it? One of my favourite competitions is the winter foursomes, as I love the idea of competitive golf at this time of year and there generally isn't much chance for it. Unfortunately my foursomes partner is more of a summer golfer so we tend to do better when the temperature is a bit warmer 

I just had a quick look in the Rye history book I've got and they didnt throw any light on why its played at this time of year other that to comment on the eccentricity of it.

Thanks David and Ran, for a splendid addition to the Best of Golf.

[James Boon]

Simon,

Thanks for your post. Having met Ben, he seems a thoroughly decent guy and though I didnt see him play, from what you said then and now I suppose its not surprising he is a past winner of the Presidents Putter. But I was more surprised last year when I met him and we ended up having a discussion about what I guess is a little known building in New York which was a favourite of both of ours and was being demolished!

You also mention the East Lothian County Cup which sounds good competition. Our county foursomes is a knock out with one round each month, but takes a similar format of the aggregate score of the two pairs as you mention. Its a great format and I love playing foursomes matchplay team events that way!

Cheers,

James

[Mark Chaplin]

Bob Crosby - Ken Hannah the immediate past secretary at Deal plays in the Presidents Putter, he went to Cambridge well into his 40s to do an MA but was of the required standard to make the first team and play in the Varsity Match thus obtaining his blue and membership of the society.

Ryan is more than entitled to his view, for every foursomes only, long stocking, jacket and tie, black balling club there are at least 50 "normal" member clubs and as many again rough and ready pay'n play courses, so no one who wishes to play golf should find themselves left on the shelf. Pick where you enjoy and stick to it. I'm as interested reading about the Hewitt as I am the likes of Beckenham Park Place where golfers used to arrive at 5am and queue up in their black taxis to get a game.

[Niall C]

Simon

That's a very nice post. Couldn't agree more about Ben, it was almost a pleasure to get knocked out in the semi's at the Renaissance Cup by you and Ben. My partner David Nelson is a handy player as are you, and Tom Doak's partner CJ was also very good but Ben was easily the best player that we played that week. As you say, a lovely easy swing and a hell of a nice guy. I recall you saying before we went out that we were going to have a good fun game and so it proved.

If you remember we finished the game at the 7th(?) and spent a fair bit of time afterwards chipping round the green using my 7 iron hybrid (ie. Ping Eye 2 head and Calloway graphite shaft). Also great fun but as I watched Ben play it did occur to me that the club was probably older than he was !

Ryan

The point Bill was making, as I suspect you well know as you sidestepped his question, is whether you have first hand experience of the Presidents Putter or whether your hatred of it is based on prejudice. If it's prejudice then thats fine, we all have them, me probably more than most, but at least hold up your hands to it.

As for your jibe at Simon regarding playing George McGregor the R&A captain, two points, it wasn't George McGregor who pointed out to Simon he was captain of the R&A, it was someone else. Secondly, the point Simon was making was it was quite daunting to be playing against a former Walker Cup player, and I'm sure that would have been the case irrespective of whether he was an Oxbridge graduate or an early leaver from a state school.

Niall

[Ryan Coles]

Niall

My comment was based on the article and nothing to do with George McGregor or Simon.

Paraphrasing the conversation from the 1st Fairway

"Where do you play dear boy"

"Ellie sir"

"Ah, I made by first speech as captain of the R&A at Ellie"

The other references to toadying behaviour were from threads I have read on here.

Hatred? You have to care deeply about something for hate, I don't.

Prejudiced? Yes, quite possibly, but my views were attempting to express my contempt for people who fawn over this sort of gathering and view it as something special, rather than contempt for those gathering.

Personal experience? The Presidents Putter? No. Oxbridge and school gatherings yes somewhat. Each to his own, its not for me. Nor is it an aspect of golf that I personally enjoy. But on personal preferences, I thought Mark was correct in that there is room for most tastes in golf.

Can I express an opinion that the presidents putter is pompous and isn't the best of golf, not having played in it?

Well, I would say yes. I have opinions on lots of things I've not experienced.

[Mark Pearce]

Ryan,

I suspect I know the player from Elie.  If I'm right as to who it is he's a young man and a fine golfer.  He is also one of the least pompous people I have met.  I can't speak as to his opponent.  If you are willing to hold someone like him in contempt simply for that conversation then you, frankly, are the one worthy of contempt.  That chip on your shoulder must be very tiring.

[Ryan Coles]

Mark

It's almost as tiring as distorting what someone has said and then arguing with it.

It was the old guy I was highlighting to illustrate my point that these events are about being seen and self-aggrandising. The author thought it was a good anecdote, I thought it highlighted my point nicely. It took the old boy less than 100 of the 6300 yards to let the the young fellow know that he'd been captain of the R & A.

[Mark Pearce]

Ryan,

You criticised the entire event and, by extension, all participants.  I have met some deeply flawed characters who play club inter-league matches.  A few years ago my partner and I played a pair in our clubs foursomes knock out competition (one of the three biggest competitions in our calendar) which included a (then) club team player.  Having loudly told his partner (a former captain) on the first tee that he had better things to do than spend the evening knocking a pair of mid-teen handicappers out of the cup he proceeded to blank us all the way round and chose not to come in for a drink after the match.  I don't tar all club league players with that brush.  You do appear to tar all of the Oxford and Cambridge Golfing Society with the same brush.  By further extension, I can't help feeling that your prejudice probably extends to all former students of those two establishments.  I'd be delighted to hear I was wrong.

[Ryan Coles]

Mark

It would be foolish of me to claim I was doing anything other than making a generalisation. As indeed are you in saying that I have a chip on my shoulder about Oxbridge. Actually I'm a big fan of excellence and don't believe in social engineering which could dilute this.

But then of course, there is always an exception to a rule, a caveat or a redeeming feature about most things or most people.

Robert Mugabe, wears some lovely suits for example.

[Mark Chaplin]

Far less cheating in the Putter or Hewitt it's all off scratch whether your +3 or 12. None of the pony handicaps that seem to appear in some quarters of the game.

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