Victoria no. 3 - green redo

[ward peyronnin]

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[ward peyronnin]

Sorry for the disjointed image but i wasn't sure the picture was uploading.

This is a view from behind the par five third green at Victoria National GC. To your left is a mound that has been lowered and extended left and toward us. The former configuration hid the green( as does the new one) from all but the very far left side of the fairway and was very steep and rough. The fairway swings up and around to the left behind this mound. To the viewers right the right greenside immediately falls away to a water hazard below a 20 cliff.

I know Mr Fazio was in town to look at this green cause I saw him there when playing and we spoke.

I would like to hear opinions regarding this change from the treehouse from what you can see in the pic and considering the elements I have described. I have some pretty strong reservations that this attempt to make a miss short right a recoverable shot rather than a harrowing tramp through tall grass on the old feature doesn't work too well?

[Matt Bielawa]

Ward, If it helps, here's a picture I took of the view from roughly the middle of the fairway.  Lots of green behind that mound by my recollection.

I've only played it once, but I thought that mound was awesome from a strategic perspective on the second shot.  Not sure I like the concept of making the right side more forgiving.

[Nigel Islam]

Ward if they would just cut the grass on the mound to 6 inches that mound is a great feature.

[ward peyronnin]

They never cut it so most of the time it is a gnarly mess and it catches a lot of balls not quite struck crisply enough or under clubbed. I am guessing that that is the aim because I thought they were going to take more of it down to make t more visible. However the strategic impact of the mound largely remains.

It is the dramatically changed character of the greenside area in the foreground of the picture that bothers me. There is now about a minimum two foot high ridge running between the cart path and green and the very severe bowl with a drain at its bottom in between those two

[ward peyronnin]

guys


help me out here

I am looking for comments/suggestions to challenge this redo. my belief is this is a very forced, awkward, and punitive for the less skilled player redesign?

[Jaeger Kovich]

The dirt work in the first picture (from behind) looks pretty weird with those trees. Matt's picture from the front reminds me of one of my favorite holes at Riviera though... Has the cartpath always been hidden on top like it is in the first picture?

[Nigel Islam]

Ward, are they really making 10 a par 4 too? That green is a small target for a long par 4 when you consider the wildness of the green. Interested to hear your thoughts on that as well. I play there about once a year, but certainly hope all this isn't being done just to attract the PGA Tour or PGA of America.

Nigel

[ward peyronnin]

I no longer know where that stands.

In 2013 the new owners rolled out a massive development plan much of which occupied forested tracts past 10,11, & 12  and required a new thoroughfare along 10 which would have taken out the current teeing ground.

This project has been notably absent from any discussions and I think has been redefined.

Yes the cart path travels over the ridge and back down just on the other side of the raw dirt.

If they leave the grass long rough one has a severe downhill flop required to keep on the green with a great chance of a skull into the hazard on the opposite side of the green. If they closely mow all balls will funnel down to the drainage inlet and require a drop. Its just a very poor solution to reducing the severity of the original mound IMO but what would work better?

[Ryan Bass]

Ward,

Having been a member at VNGC for nearly five years (recently relinquished), I have intimate knowledge of the many improvements to the course over the last couple of years.  I especially appreciate the effort at clearing overgrowth and cutting trees in order to allow the course to breathe and, in some cases, open up playing corridors. 

However, the changes to #3 I do not understand.  I agree with your assessment and concern.  I wonder if the last 100 yards of fairway could be moved any further to the left and up the hill closer to the bunkers?  Thus, the approach angle to the green would be more direct and away from that right side.  I'm not sure that's doable or even smart but I'm just thinking "out loud."