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SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2005, 11:47:09 AM »
Brad Klein -
Wasn't there a Raters Cup event at The Glen Club in Chicago? Using Joel Stewart's twisted logic, shouldn't it, have therefore, appeared on the 100 Modern list?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 12:31:12 PM by SPDB »

Mike_Cirba

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2005, 11:52:47 AM »
Ditto the River Course at Kiawah.  

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2005, 12:25:54 PM »
Joel Klein! Please, I think he's a Stewart.

Let's not forget all of those other outing sites we had that produced no discernible bump - and perhaps even a slide - in the ratings: Hudson National, Briars' Creek, The Reserve at Litchfield, French Lick Springs, Bloody Point, Melrose, Haig Point.

Yep, sounds like a conspiracy to me.

THuckaby2

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2005, 12:29:17 PM »
I prefer to think of you guys as

Tommy Klein
Brad Cirba
Mike Naccarato

 ;D ;D ;D

I must say, that Joel Klein reference did crack me up.


SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2005, 12:30:50 PM »
Pipe down Patrick Huckaby!

mistake corrected.

THuckaby2

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2005, 12:32:39 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D

SPDB - love that.  Only I think the other side just got the greatest offense ever written on this board.

 ;D ;D ;D

I know, honest mistake, no biggie.  It was just so darn PERFECT... it cracked me up.

TH

Mike_Cirba

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2005, 12:36:00 PM »
I prefer to think of you guys as

Tommy Klein
Brad Cirba
Mike Naccarato

 ;D ;D ;D

I must say, that Joel Klein reference did crack me up.



Huckaby,

I just have one thing to say... ;D

I hope we can someday discuss this further sitting on the porch of the "38th Best course in the country".*  


* Golf Digest official positioning of Sand Hills Golf Club

THuckaby2

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2005, 12:41:07 PM »
Michael, that would be lovely.  I'd just promise also not to ask you to compare said course to Oakmont, Merion, Pebble, Cypress, Pine Valley, etc.  I surely wouldn't want your brain to fry at such a difficult concept.

 ;D

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2005, 12:57:03 PM »
Once again Sean is wrong...

In defense of Joel, not that Joel should be defended on this thread, twisted logic and all he is a decent guy. Very decent.

Tommy Paul Huckaby Naccarato
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 01:51:59 PM by Tommy_Naccarato »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2005, 02:13:43 PM »
-Are you alleging improprieties?

What's the problem here?

I'm not alleging anything other then the course made a huge move up without any material changes to the course.  There was not a restoration or remodel as an example.   The only thing that changed was a number of panelists played here (many of them together) and then voted.    It seems suspicious.


Mike Erdmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2005, 02:26:03 PM »
Joel, last October's GW raters' retreat in Chicago involved an outing at Cog Hill, yet the course dropped from #36 to #47 in the 2005 Top 100 Modern list.  Hosting a rater event is no assurance of moving up in the rankings.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 02:27:22 PM by Mike Erdmann »

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2005, 02:41:17 PM »
It seems to me that every now and then a course may jump up in the ratings on one single premise..people liked it and/or its maturity justifies a rise..I think the Preserve fits this criteria..all this b.s. regarding outings..what does that all mean..obviously the more people that see a course the more it will be judged..but that can certainly work for or against a golf course.

It ishard not to like a course as scenic as The preserve..it certainly is not above a 6.0..but it is simply a very nice golf course..outings or not ;D

Gib_Papazian

Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2005, 03:11:24 PM »
Gentlemen,

Look, let's cut all the bullsh*t here.

All three rating panels have a skeleton or two in their closet.

Nobody has come up with the perfect system. Having marched under two different flags and being a close friend of an architectural savant who carries a card on a third I am somewhat qualified to comment.

The Preserve is what it is. I think it is rated too high with my current association as well as my past alma mater.

GD rated Shadow Creek in the top ten and then threw it under a bus two years later. I think it belongs a bit lower still, but that is just my opinion.

I can see how lesser intellects can allow their judgement and opinions of a layout be clouded by booze, pussy, bathtubs or whatever else they throw at you.

But for the vast majority of us - or maybe most of my friends on all these panels are hopeless curmudgeons - it makes no difference.

The rating is the rating. The number is the number and eventually (over a few years) a golf course settles where it belongs. Sometimes we get over-excited for a short time, but after a day or two of reflection, the real value rises to the surface of your mind.

Whether there is an outing there or not.

Personally, I ALWAYS wait a few days before posting my rating of a golf course to give it time to settle in.

And sometimes it is simply a matter of which particular raters visit a golf course. Taken in total, between GW, GD and GM, we come from extremely varied demographics and geographic areas.

I am close friends with  Wigler, but we disagree all the time. Same with Huckster. Even Joel, whose opinions I hold as high as the Emperor, sometimes is so far from lockstep with me that  he is playing in a different band.

I don't think Joel believes there is some kind of conspiracy or even impropriety. He is just giving everybody the dick for amusement.      
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 09:20:14 PM by Gib Papazian »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Preserve?
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2005, 05:24:01 PM »
Once again Sean is wrong...

In defense of Joel, not that Joel should be defended on this thread, twisted logic and all he is a decent guy. Very decent.

Tommy Paul Huckaby Naccarato

Tommy - What are you talking about? How am I wrong? I'll assume that you just got a little trigger happy with you "Sean is wrong..." button. Haven't I always suggested that you read my posts before you disagree with me? And I hope by your post, you don't mean to imply that I suggested Joel isn't a decent guy.  

If somebody is a bad person for engaging in twisted logic, then you're the world's worst human being.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 28, 2005, 05:27:28 PM by SPDB »

Rob Curtiss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Preserve?
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2015, 12:37:50 PM »
Does anyone know if this course has improved?  This thread is ten years old and it seems to focus on it was a wasting opportunity.

I know it does not mean a lot - but it has been in the GD top 100 for a while now - but dropping - so I wondered if there have been any improvements made-


Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Preserve? New
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2015, 02:01:56 PM »
Hard to believe its been 10 years.  Such vile coming out of my mouth back then as well as some very bad writing.

You are correct, the club has dropped in the ratings.  Last year GolfWeek rated it #116 down from 84 on the modern list.  Golf Digest has it as 87, down from 79 two years ago.

The club has suffered from the drought and I'm told was closed a good portion of last year due to lack of water.  The club drilled several wells on the property with limited success. They kept the tees, landing areas and greens alive but not much else.  They have asked the members not to drive carts on the dead grass.  

I'm unsure of the current conditions and the level of the reservoirs?  Last year they started the year at only 50% of capacity.  As the year went along, the evaporation rate accelerated.

I've played the course twice since this original thread.  I still stand that it's a 5 and that Fazio's attempt at minimalism is a failure.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 02:54:27 PM by Joel_Stewart »

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